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| Should male infants be circumcised at birth? |
| Yes |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| No |
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82% |
[ 14 ] |
| Other opinion |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Location: James Joyce's pants
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: CDC wants to make circumcision mandatory to fight HIV |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24circumcision.html?_r=1&hp
Officials Weigh Circumcision to Fight H.I.V. Risk
By RONI CARYN RABIN
Published: August 23, 2009
Public health officials are considering promoting routine circumcision for all baby boys born in the United States to reduce the spread of H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS
The topic is a delicate one that has already generated controversy, even though a formal draft of the proposed recommendations, due out from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention by the end of the year, has yet to be released.
Experts are also considering whether the surgery should be offered to adult heterosexual men whose sexual practices put them at high risk of infection. But they acknowledge that a circumcision drive in the United States would be unlikely to have a drastic impact: the procedure does not seem to protect those at greatest risk here, men who have sex with men.
Recently, studies showed that in African countries hit hard by AIDS, men who were circumcised reduced their infection risk by half. But the clinical trials in Africa focused on heterosexual men who are at risk of getting H.I.V. from infected female partners.
For now, the focus of public health officials in this country appears to be on making recommendations for newborns, a prevention strategy that would only pay off many years from now. Critics say it subjects baby boys to medically unnecessary surgery without their consent.
But Dr. Peter Kilmarx, chief of epidemiology for the division of H.I.V./AIDS prevention at the C.D.C., said that any step that could thwart the spread of H.I.V. must be given serious consideration.
�We have a significant H.I.V. epidemic in this country, and we really need to look carefully at any potential intervention that could be another tool in the toolbox we use to address the epidemic,� Dr. Kilmarx said. �What we�ve heard from our consultants is that there would be a benefit for infants from infant circumcision, and that the benefits outweigh the risks.�
He and other experts acknowledged that although the clinical trials of circumcision in Africa had dramatic results, the effects of circumcision in the United States were likely to be more muted because the disease is less prevalent here, because it spreads through different routes and because the health systems are so disparate as to be incomparable.
Clinical trials in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda found that heterosexual men who were circumcised were up to 60 percent less likely to become infected with H.I.V. over the course of the trials than those who were not circumcised.
There is little to no evidence that circumcision protects men who have sex with men from infection.
Another reason circumcision would have less of an impact in the United States is that some 79 percent of adult American men are already circumcised, public health officials say.
But newborn circumcision rates have dropped in recent decades, to about 65 percent of newborns in 1999 from a high of about 80 percent after World War II, according to C.D.C. figures. And blacks and Hispanics, who have been affected disproportionately by AIDS, are less likely than whites to circumcise their baby boys, according to the agency.
Circumcision rates have fallen in part because the American Academy of Pediatrics, which sets the guidelines for infant care, does not endorse routine circumcision. Its policy says that circumcision is �not essential to the child�s current well-being,� and as a result, many state Medicaid programs do not cover the operation.
The academy is revising its guidelines, however, and is likely to do away with the neutral tone in favor of a more encouraging policy stating that circumcision has health benefits even beyond H.I.V. prevention, like reducing urinary tract infections for baby boys, said Dr. Michael Brady, a consultant to the American Academy of Pediatrics.
He said the academy would probably stop short of recommending routine surgery, however. �We do have evidence to suggest there are health benefits, and families should be given an opportunity to know what they are,� he said. But, he said, the value of circumcision for H.I.V. protection in the United States is difficult to assess, adding, �Our biggest struggle is trying to figure out how to understand the true value for Americans.�
Circumcision will be discussed this week at the C.D.C.�s National H.I.V. Prevention Conference in Atlanta, which will be attended by thousands of health professionals and H.I.V. service providers.
Among the speakers is a physician from Operation Abraham, an organization based in Israel and named after the biblical figure who was circumcised at an advanced age, according to the book of Genesis. The group trains doctors in Africa to perform circumcisions on adult men to reduce the spread of H.I.V.
Members of Intact America, a group that opposes newborn circumcision, have rented mobile billboards that will drive around Atlanta carrying their message that �circumcising babies doesn�t prevent H.I.V.,� said Georganne Chapin, who leads the organization.
Although the group�s members oppose circumcision on broad philosophical and medical grounds, Ms. Chapin argued that the studies in Africa found only that circumcision reduces H.I.V. infection risk, not that it prevents infection. �Men still need to use condoms,� Ms. Chapin said.
In fact, while the clinical trials in Africa found that circumcision reduced the risk of a man�s acquiring H.I.V., it was not clear whether it would reduce the risk to women from an infected man, several experts said.
�There�s mixed data on that,� Dr. Kilmarx said. But, he said, �If we have a partially successful intervention for men, it will ultimately lower the prevalence of H.I.V. in the population, and ultimately lower the risk to women.�
Circumcision is believed to protect men from infection with H.I.V. because the mucosal tissue of the foreskin is more susceptible to H.I.V. and can be an entry portal for the virus. Observational studies have found that uncircumcised men have higher rates of other sexually transmitted diseases like herpes and syphilis, and a recent study in Baltimore found that heterosexual men were less likely to have become infected with H.I.V. from infected partners if they were circumcised. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Opposed.
I'd be interested to see Big Bird's opinion on this. Genuinely, of course. |
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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Mandatory? Right. Not a chance.
Others want it banned:
http://mgmbill.org/
Sadly, they won't win either, will they. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Very misleading thread title. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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What a bunch of hogwash!
Now the justification for circumcision is the prevention of AIDS. Odd how they were promoting it even before AIDS existed. In fact, the history of circumcision is just a trail of justifications du jour.
In the early 19th Century, it was done to prevent wet dreams. Next, the pretext was to stop masturbation, then it was to prevent syphilis, cure epilepsy, spinal paralysis, bedwetting, clubfoot, curvature of the spine, eye problems, and more.
In 1888, John Harvey Kellogg promoted circumcision to prevent boys from masturbating, as his corn flakes allegedly did.
And circumcising blacks would stop them from raping white women.
Around the turn of the 20th Century, some doctors promoted it for permanent desensitization of the penis which IS true.
It would cure epilepsy, TB, and cancer (even of the tongue and cervical cancer in women!), in fact, nearly all physical and mental illness.
| Edward Wallerstein wrote: |
| Circumcision is a solution in search of a problem. |
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization
Doctors Opposing Circumcision HIV Statement
The Truth about Circumcision and HIV
According to the World Association for Sexual Health's Declaration of Sexual Rights, every human being has the right to genital integrity.
And there are some very serious risks of complications of circumcision, up to and including death. The "boy raised as a girl" was the result of a botched circumcision.
It is cruel, barbaric, almost always unnecessary in newborn males. Please do not mutilate your infant sons this way. |
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Moldy Rutabaga

Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Location: Ansan, Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: |
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But allow me to make the old joke: I asked my wife if she thought I should get circumcised. She said it was a big flap over nothing.
Ken:> |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: |
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ATLANTA--Circumcision, which has helped prevent AIDS among heterosexual men in Africa, doesn't help protect gay men from the disease, according to the largest U.S. study to look at the question.
The research, presented at a conference Tuesday, is expected to influence the government's first guidance on circumcision.
Circumcision "is not considered beneficial" in stopping the spread of the HIV virus that causes AIDS through anal sex, said Peter Kilmarx, of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. However, the CDC is still considering recommending it for other groups, including baby boys and high-risk heterosexual men.
UNAIDS and other international health organizations promote circumcision, the cutting away of the foreskin, as an important strategy for reducing the spread of the AIDS virus. There hasn't been the same kind of push for circumcision in the U.S.
For one thing, nearly 80% of American men are already circumcised--a much higher proportion than most other countries. World-wide, the male circumcision rate is estimated at about 30%.
Also, while HIV spreads primarily through heterosexual sex in Africa and some other parts of the world, in the U.S. it has mainly infected gay men. Only about 4% of U.S. men are gay, according to preliminary CDC estimates released at the conference this week. But they account for more than half of the new HIV infections each year.
Previous research has suggested circumcision doesn't make a difference when anal sex is involved. The latest study, by CDC researchers, looked at nearly 4,900 men who had anal sex with an HIV-infected partner and found the infection rate, about 3.5%, was approximately the same whether the men were circumcised or not.
U.S. government recommendations on circumcision are still being written and may not be final until next year, following public comment. CDC doctors and many experts believe there is a good argument for recommending that baby boys and heterosexual men at a higher risk for HIV be circumcised.
The definition of high risk is still being discussed, said Dr. Kilmarx, chief of the epidemiology branch in the CDC's HIV division.
Circumcision is a sensitive issue laden with cultural and religious meaning, particularly when babies are involved, Dr. Kilmarx acknowledged. "It's seen by many as more than just as medical procedure,'' he said. It's possible the government would simply recommend better education for doctors and parents about the procedure's benefits and risks, he added.
The prospect of the government promoting circumcision of infants has already drawn fire from an advocacy group called Intact America. The organization, based in Tarrytown, N.Y., parked a motorized billboard this week outside the hotel hosting the HIV conference, displaying the message: "Tell the CDC that circumcising babies doesn't prevent HIV.''
"It's removing healthy, functioning, sexual and protective tissue from a person who cannot consent. You're mutilating a child,'' said Georgeanne Chapin, the group's executive director. |
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125123165123458109.html
The US is the most circumcised country on the planet. That's surprising. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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One of my good friends is nicknamed "Foreskin" because it is believed he is akin to the worthless flap of skin on the end of a pecker (his laziness knows no bounds).
In light of all the evidence bacasper and others have provided on this forum, we may now have to reconsider whether or not his handle is actually suitable. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
One of my good friends is nicknamed "Foreskin" because it is believed he is akin to the worthless flap of skin on the end of a pecker (his laziness knows no bounds).
In light of all the evidence bacasper and others have provided on this forum, we may now have to reconsider whether or not his handle is actually suitable. |
I am afraid that your friend could hardly be more INAPPROPRIATELY named.
I believe that the highly specialized and sensitive group of nerve cells in the foreskin, which are removed during circumcision, called the "ridged band," was discovered after the writing of this article. It is nonetheless highly instructive.
Function of the Foreskin
To understand the function of the prepuce, it is necessary to understand the function of the *beep*. While it is commonly recognized that the *beep* has two functions - urination and procreation - in reality, it is essential only for procreation, since it is not required for urination.
For procreation to occur, the normally flaccid male genital must become erect. As it changes from flaccidity to rigidity, the male genital increases in length about 50 percent. As it elongates, the double fold of skin (foreskin) provides the skin necessary for full expansion of the penile shaft. But microscopic examination reveals that the foreskin is more than just penile skin necessary for a natural erection; it is specialized tissue, richly supplied with blood vessels, highly innervated, and uniquely endowed with stretch receptors. These attributes of the foreskin contribute significantly to the sexual response of the intact male. The complex tissue of the foreskin responds to stimulation during sexual activity. Stretching of the foreskin over the glans of the male genital activates preputial nerve endings, enhances sexual excitability, and contributes to the male ejaculatory reflex. Besides the neurological role of the preputial tissue, the mucosal surface of the inner lining of the foreskin has a specific function during masturbation or sexual relations.
During masturbation, the mucosal surface of the foreskin rolls back and forth across the mucosal surface of the glans of the male genital, providing nontraumatic sexual stimulation. During heterosexual activity, the mucosal surfaces of the glans of the male genital and foreskin move back and forth across the mucosal surfaces of the labia and vagina, providing nontraumatic sexual stimulation of both male and female. This mucous-membrane-to-mucous-membrane contact provides the natural lubrication necessary for sexual relations and prevents both the dryness responsible for painful intercourse and the chafing and abrasions which allow entry of sexually transmitted diseases, both viral and bacterial.
When normal, sexually functioning tissue is removed, sexual functioning is also altered. Changes of the male genital that occur with circumcision have been documented. These may vary according to the procedure used and the age at which the circumcision was performed, nevertheless penile changes will inevitably occur following circumcision.
Circumcision performed in the newborn period traumatically interrupts the natural separation of the foreskin from the glans that normally occurs somewhere between birth and age 18. The raw, exposed glans of the male genital heals in a process that measurably thickens the surface of the glans and results in desensitization of the head of the male genital.
more at link
It is heartening to see a 7-0 vote so far against circumcision on this poll. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Location: Busan
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ....researchers showed that the inner foreskin of the *beep* has a significantly higher density of Langerhans cells�the initial cellular targets in the sexual transmission of HIV�than other areas of the foreskin. By removing the inner foreskin, circumcision removes the skin surface that is most susceptible to HIV infection, thereby reducing the risk of contracting HIV. |
http://www.renalandurologynews.com/Circumcision-May-Help-Stop-HIV-Spread/article/146796/
It seems people should probably make the decision themselves when they become sexually active/16. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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After reading bacasper's last post, I feel incredibly sick to my stomache. What's worse, someone at my school was just talking to Korean Center for Disease Control about the H1N1 flu virus as I was reading the post, so when she saw my reaction she freaked out.
You, sir, are a terrorist. If I get stuck in quarantine or something because if your post, it's going to be fisticuffs between us.
Regarding circumcision preventing AIDS: in any situation circumcision might prevent HIV infection, the individual in question could prevent it just as easily while uncircumcised by simply being more careful about their sexual partners.
Contracting AIDS through intentional sexual contact or needle sharing is utterly avoidable. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Location: Busan
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Contracting AIDS through intentional sexual contact or needle sharing is utterly avoidable. |
Condoms have a failure rate though... |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Contracting AIDS through intentional sexual contact or needle sharing is utterly avoidable. |
Condoms have a failure rate though... |
Being more sexually conservative, on the other hand, doesn't.
That's not to say I'm demanding abstinence, just that it's clearly a choice, and in AIDS-saturated environments, it's a wise choice. In the face of such a choice being availible, mandating the circumcision of baby boys is not reasonable.
If you're going to sleep with strangers who you aren't certain are HIV-free, you're taking a risk. Whether or not that risk is worthwhile is up to the individual. In my eyes, it generally isn't. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Location: Busan
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Well you could certainly rid the world of Aids if everyone got screened for it and everyone decided not to sleep with an infected person.... but that's a while off.. |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
After reading bacasper's last post, I feel incredibly sick to my stomache. What's worse, someone at my school was just talking to Korean Center for Disease Control about the H1N1 flu virus as I was reading the post, so when she saw my reaction she freaked out.
You, sir, are a terrorist. If I get stuck in quarantine or something because if your post, it's going to be fisticuffs between us. |
Sorry for that. Take my advice and do NOT go to medical school.
| Quote: |
| Regarding circumcision preventing AIDS: in any situation circumcision might prevent HIV infection, the individual in question could prevent it just as easily while uncircumcised by simply being more careful about their sexual partners. |
Or by teaching boys basic genital hygiene: retract the foreskin and wash with soap and water. (Oh, no! Did I do it again?) |
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