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First Time Teacher - Could you help me out with my contract?

 
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: First Time Teacher - Could you help me out with my contract? Reply with quote

Buk Incheon SLP

2.2 mil won.

20,000 overtime.

hours: 1 - 9:10

10 paid vacation days.

basically 6.5 sick days a year.

I can give more details directly.

50% medical, and some very decent housing.

I've read some bad things about SLP (overwork you, essentially), but not about this branch. Could you guys give me some advice? It seems like a decent offer, and I don't want to pass it up just out of paranoia. It does seem to require a bit more work than some other contracts I've seen but it also pays a little more.

Thanks SO MUCH in advance!
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asams



Joined: 17 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: First Time Teacher - Could you help me out with my contr Reply with quote

paperbag846 wrote:
Buk Incheon SLP

2.2 mil won.

20,000 overtime.

hours: 1 - 9:10

10 paid vacation days.

basically 6.5 sick days a year.

I can give more details directly.

50% medical, and some very decent housing.

I've read some bad things about SLP (overwork you, essentially), but not about this branch. Could you guys give me some advice? It seems like a decent offer, and I don't want to pass it up just out of paranoia. It does seem to require a bit more work than some other contracts I've seen but it also pays a little more.

Thanks SO MUCH in advance!


How many classes per day? How many children per class? Does the 8 hours include break time?
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm waiting to hear back on break time, not specified yet in the contract (and I want it in there somewhere).

What kind of break time would be reasonable?

12 kids per class, generally.

Each week is split into 36 40 minute classes.
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asams



Joined: 17 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paperbag846 wrote:
I'm waiting to hear back on break time, not specified yet in the contract (and I want it in there somewhere).

What kind of break time would be reasonable?

12 kids per class, generally.

Each week is split into 36 40 minute classes.


36 classes a week is quite a bit. Think about it, that's more than 6 classes a day. I couldn't imagine that many classes a week. Most hogwan contracts are for a max of 30 classes per week. I'm pretty sure that they're supposed to give you an hour break if you work 8 hours. 30 minutes for every 4 hours.
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds ok, I see a lot of offers where hagwons want to secure the hours for you to be on call. Just because it looks like 36 classes, it probably won't be.

So, you should find out from them directly how many classes you actually have to teach. Try to get them finished as early as you can so you can leave early. Otherwise, you will have something similar to a split shift and there will be 1-2 hours in between with nothing much to do.

2.2 isn't that much for hagwon job.
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jmuns



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Location: earth

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it is 36 classes, you aren't going to even have a break one day a week. thats a lot of work for only 2.2. i would be asking for more money, or definitely find out how many classes you will be teaching.
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks alot guys, very valuable advice.

I'll get these things worked out on the contract. If they are too sketchy on my break time, ill pass.

If they're flexible, do you think this is a reasonable deal for a first time teacher? Do you think I could do better?

Would I be able to find a better deal in smaller cities? Or is it more dependent on chains?
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, should I be suspicious if the contract sent to me in only in english? I was told that I must sign a contract both in english AND korean for it to be legally binding in Korea.

I don't want to get off the plane and find out that the agreement has changed.
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asams wrote:
paperbag846 wrote:
I'm waiting to hear back on break time, not specified yet in the contract (and I want it in there somewhere).

What kind of break time would be reasonable?

12 kids per class, generally.

Each week is split into 36 40 minute classes.


36 classes a week is quite a bit. Think about it, that's more than 6 classes a day. I couldn't imagine that many classes a week. Most hogwan contracts are for a max of 30 classes per week. I'm pretty sure that they're supposed to give you an hour break if you work 8 hours. 30 minutes for every 4 hours.


If they book me from 1 - 9, 5 days a week, thats 40 hours.

36 * 40 minutes = 24 hours.

thats a lot of time im NOT working? Would that be inbetween time, prep time, and lunch time?
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If they're flexible, do you think this is a reasonable deal for a first time teacher?


This is not something that is a bonus. Being flexible are for things like having a 25-30 hour work week and allowing you to leave as soon as your classes are finished.

Flexible on your end means you might do a makeup lesson here and there when students don't show up.

Telling you what hours they expect of you is NOT being flexible, it's doing their part as the employer.

With that said, it doesn't sound that bad. They just aren't communicating what they will have you do. I know you will be worried, but I suggest you keep the hours the way they want and push for a total number of hours to be taught in your contract.

Somehow, I got 28 in a hagwon contract, whereas a couple other teachers on their way out had 30. This makes a difference when you calculate overtime. So, make sure they put 30 or less in the contract.

You will want to change things anyway when you get to the school and find out what is going on, so it's not that important to push it on them to have details of the exact schedule. I am at my 4th school, and they have always changed the schedule so it was a win win situation.

Of course, you will often get offers to change the schedule to something that may not be good for you. Look at their offer, find out why they want it, and then counteroffer. This usually works better than trying to initiate offers to them. Usually, they want to just keep things the way they are, but if you get them wanting to change things you just reply, "Well, in that case, please do A, B, or C for me". They will look at it as more of an exchange than giving you something.
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paperbag846



Joined: 16 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lifeinkorea wrote:
Quote:
If they're flexible, do you think this is a reasonable deal for a first time teacher?


This is not something that is a bonus. Being flexible are for things like having a 25-30 hour work week and allowing you to leave as soon as your classes are finished.

...

Telling you what hours they expect of you is NOT being flexible, it's doing their part as the employer.

...

Somehow, I got 28 in a hagwon contract, whereas a couple other teachers on their way out had 30. This makes a difference when you calculate overtime. So, make sure they put 30 or less in the contract.


Thanks for your help. I think you may have misunderstood.

I'm not adverse to a 40 hour work week, unless I can make the same money working 30. I'm quite accustomed to a 40 hour work week.

Like I said before, 36 * 40minutes = only 24 hours of teaching a week.

The contract specifically states that I must stay on the premises, however, from 1- 9.

Therefore, while the contract does not explicitly state anything about break time, is it implied?

Is it a bad deal for me to be expected to stay on-call for these hours? Do any of you have experience with how I might be able to suggest the removal of the "I must stay on the premises, however, from 1- 9." Assuming this is an uncommon clause?
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tokkibunni8



Joined: 13 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a horrible contract. I would stay away from it. My very first offer was with a hagwon 1.5 yrs ago with CDI for 2.7mill teaching a maximun of 120 classes a month.

I decided to go with the public sector and is very glad that I did. I teach at the most 26 40min classes a week and with my overtime pay(more than 22 classes/week) make just as much with better perks (ie, 8 weeks of paid vacation/yr).

I'd say make changes or stay away!
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, you are new. You need to learn a few things. Go slow, and don't put all your cards on the table until the school plays some of theirs.

Quote:
I'm not adverse to a 40 hour work week, unless I can make the same money working 30. I'm quite accustomed to a 40 hour work week.


I am not saying you are. I am saying you don't want to commit to all of that upfront. The school will hold you to it. They will take advantage of you. It is in your best interest to get the fewest hours with the highest amount of pay.

Then, talk overtime and get 20,000 for it.

Quote:
The contract specifically states that I must stay on the premises, however, from 1- 9.


Then you won't be working all those hours. They are telling you right there you will have to wait at some point for your next class.

Quote:
Is it a bad deal for me to be expected to stay on-call for these hours?


Depends what their schedule is. I have a tight 1-6 schedule now, so I have to stay at the school (plus I live an hour away from the school, lol). At a hagwon, I had a split schedule 9am-10pm (Mon-Thu, Fridays off). I taught a few hours in the morning, went back home and returned in the afternoon.

You need to find out your schedule before you can judge if it is good or bad. For example, let's say they have you work 6 classes from 1pm straight. That's like 1-7pm. What do they want you to do until 9pm? If you can go home after you teach, then you will have stayed on call and not left the premises. Your teaching is then done. You need to find out how picky they are.

Agree to a 30 hour (or less) work week, and then say overtime is negotiable after that.

Quote:
Like I said before, 36 * 40minutes = only 24 hours of teaching a week.


And that is how they will take advantage of you. You will teach 6 more classes, and they won't have to pay you overtime (120,000/week, 480,000/month). I am only teaching 25 classes and I am earning more than what you have stated in your original post (and I only have to teach 1-6pm, 2-6pm on Fridays).
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asams



Joined: 17 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying 36 classes a week isn't doable. I'm just saying that, no matter whether it's 40 minutes per class or an hour per class, it's still a lot. I wouldn't get a contract with more than 30 classes per week. I would make sure it states classes and not hours. They will try to take advantage of this if they're classes are less than an hour long.
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asams wrote:
whether it's 40 minutes per class or an hour per class, it's still a lot.


I had a hagwon job last year where I would go into a classroom after the Korean teacher taught for 30 minutes. I would do 17-20 minutes with each class. I ended up doing about 5 or 6 of these a day (but only for 4 days of the week) with elementary school students, along with some 50 minute classes for the older students. So, I easily fit in 10 classes.

That doesn't mean 50 classes over 4 days equals 30 classes over 5 days. This is why I go by the time instead of number of classes.

It can also backfire. At my previous school this year, I was scheduled to teach 2 hour classes. I complained about it, and they changed it so that I taught 40 minutes to 3 classes over 3 days instead of 2 hour blocks for only one class a day. I was able to repeat the same lesson three times, whereas this "1" class only schedule they initially had meant I had to prepare 3 lessons on day one. By changing it to 3 classes, I only had to plan 1 lesson a day for the morning classes.

Personally, I find this easier and better for both the teacher and the students. The teacher can focus on teaching one lesson and improve it 2nd and 3rd time around.

So, if the school is setting it up so the teacher meets with students more often within the same amount of time, it can work out for everyone's benefit.
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