Korean Job Discussion Forums

[cottageloaf]

I'm thinking of furthing my education and want to continue in the field of ESL.
I have my CELTA and thought it was excellent. I was wondering if people have any thoughts on which would be better: getting an MA in TESL/ESL, or a DELTA.

If you have taken either course could you give me advice or your opinions about it, thanks.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

For Korea MA (Tesol).

I did my Celta a few years back, doesn't apply so much to Korea nor do Koreans know or much care what it is or how many hours it is.

For Europe DELTA might be worth a go. What would it cost?

[withnail]

There are threads on this if you do a search. You won't be able to do a DELTA until you have served 2 years as an EFL teacher. You can only do the "distance DELTA" if you want to continue to live in Korea. It will be difficult and expensive and you'll have to find a senior and suitably qualified colleague to act as your supervisor for the programme for its duration. This isn't easy as there would be unpaid work in it for him/her doing observations etc. I don't know anyone who has done the distance DELTA.

The DELTA (or Trinity Diploma) is the most rigorous qualification you can get in EFL concerning actual classroom practice. Hard teaching skills, not just academic theory. This is because of the extent and exacting nature of the observed teaching practice you have to do. You'd be a much better teacher for it.

A CELTA is its little brother. An introductory tefl qualification. Much easier, doable in a month and with observed teaching practice. A good start for your EFL career. You'd have to do it in your vacation (if you have a vacation of more than a month!).

Unfortunately, neither will get you extra respect or kudos in Korea as only the EFL cognoscenti really know much about them. I'll bet you any money you like that very few who come on this thread to comment have ever done a DELTA, and a relative few will have done the CELTA. They are largely British qualifications but the CELTA is a good deal more international now and can be obtained in several locations including Seoul.

However those who come on here to talk about their relative uselessness (Bassexpander I predict) are right. If you're living in Korea, the distance DELTA is far too much time and effort to be worth your while unless you already have a Masters. If you were a working teacher in the UK and planned to teach in Europe later on, I'd recommend the bricks and mortar version over 9 months in the UK.

Conclusion: DELTA: excellent qualification but here in Korea, you'd be about the only one who knew that! CELTA ditto as an introductory course.

MA courses are different. If you're looking for teacher development (improving your actual teaching performance in the classroom), you won't get that online I'm afraid, however a Master's degree in anything but particularly in TESOL, Ling. App.Ling. or Education is the most useful in Korea

An online MA will take you a couple of years part-time while working in Korea and is far more worthwhile than doing a distance DELTA for all other reasons than for the development of your classroom teaching skills.

Korean universities are increasingly only interested in looking at people with Masters' degrees or those who are doing them. Sadly from the prof. dev point of view, it doesn't really matter to them what subject it's in, except for some universities, mostly in Seoul. Equally, online MAs, even in TESOL will not get you observed teaching practice and feedback on your classroom performance. In Korea this does not matter anyway.

Do an online MA as a first priority if you want to stay in Korea and work in a university. Do CELTA/DELTA next if you are very concerned with EFL teacher training. If you want to stay and develop in this business make sure your online MA is in TESOL or App. Ling. If you are thinking of changing your field later, do any other kind of online MA.

Get a 100-hour online TESOL if you want to get a salary increase for a public school job. It's worthless but it'll get you the money.

If you're not going to stay in TEFL, forget it.

For actual teacher development, I mean real classroom skills, join Kotesol and go to workshops. Do peer observation with your colleagues and read extensively.

An online MA will greatly improve your knowledge but you'll have to reflect and apply your knowledge yourself without feedback and supervision, unless you seek it from colleagues. Nothing wrong with that.

For serious TEFLers, here is the order of qualifications in terms of making you a better teacher through teacher training.

1. DELTA/Trinity Diploma /PGCE/Trained State School Teacher
2. MA Tesol with observed teaching practice
3. Graduate Diploma with observed teaching practice
4. CELTA (includes o.t.p) / Equivalent Tesol certs (not online and with o.t.p.)


Here's the order in terms of usefulness in Korea

1. Ph.D Ling/App Ling (or M.Phil)
2. Any Ph.D / M.Phil
3. MA Tesol / Applied Linguistics
4. Other MA or MSc
5. Grad Dip. TESOL / App Ling
6. Online Tesol Cert (only for salary reasons in public schools)
7. Delta (possibly, once you explain what it is)
8. Celta (possibly, once you explain why it's better than a cert without o.t.p.)
9. BA/BSc only (English/Related major)
10. BA/BSc only (unrelated major)

[edwardcatflap]

Having done both an MA and DELTA I'd agree that the DELTA is much better to improve your practical skills in the class room but not much recognised here.

If you want to do the DELTA in Korea I'd recommend applying for the British Council. If you get a job there, they they will organise you to do the distance version, fund half of it and give you hours off teaching to study for it.

[bassexpander]

Basically, a DELTA is only useful for Brits, or people from countries where the British system is recognized.

Otherwise, teacher certification, and/or an MA would be far more useful. Few in America (other than those working as trainers in schools affiliated with the DELTA -- of which there aren't many in the USA) would even know or care what a DELTA is. Same goes for Korea.

[withnail]

Agreed. Basically what I said. But what Americans think or know of the Delta or the CELTA for that matter is largely irrelevant unless they are doing the hiring.

It's what the Koreans think that matters and so far these qualifications and I would argue, any TESOL qualifications would only be used to separate candidates who already have Masters degrees.

In Korea, a Master's degree (often in anything) beats Tesol qualifications (no matter how good) 9.9 times out of 10. Sad but true.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

[withnail]

Right.

[withnail]

Actually I'm really glad about something now I've decided to live in Korea. I'm a Brit and worked as an EFL teacher in Japan, France and London for 10 years before I came to Korea three years ago.

When I started out, instead of going the Celta/Delta route, I instead chose a Graduate Diploma in EFL instead of the Delta. I did this because I could get funding to do it and because the intensity of the observed teaching practice (included 6 weeks on placement in Hungary) equalled the DELTA.

But when I was in London, the DELTA was the only thing they set store by until finally the British Council granted my university's program equivalence with the DELTA.

Every time my school was inspected, they kept having to ring up the British Council to check my Grad. Dip. in EFL was in fact equivalent to the Delta. Being an equally rigorous course, that ticked me off.

Ten years later in Korea, 2 good things happened.

Now it was my qualification that Koreans seemed to understand better! Second, I have been able to upgrade it to MA Tesol with my university by doing an online module in research methods and submitting a 20,000 word dissertation (almost finished now). All for less than 2000 quid because I'd already done the taught part, even though it was so long before!

I am quite glad that I didn't do the Delta those 13 years ago. If I had, it would be worth very little now here in Korea and I'd be paying out thousands for an online Masters that would take 2 years at least, instead of the 4-5 months it takes to knock out an MA thesis!!

[cottageloaf]

Thank you everybody for your response and withnail special thanks for a fantastically thorough answer. It was really helpful and congrats on nearly finishing your dissertation.

[calicoe]

[withnail]

No problem chaps. Here to help, anytime!

[Kaypea]

Hmm professional development... been thinking about it.

I'm thinking either:

MA in Teaching from University of Toronto (brick & mortar)-- you become a licenced Ontario schoolteacher AND you get an MA (but it's in "Teaching"- I'm worried that that sounds like a phoney-baloney MA).

Distance MA from Birminham University, while still teaching in Korea-- so I can apply the learning to my teaching, and go the college route (hopefully teaching in a Canadian college some day)

What do you guys think about MA in Teaching? Is it recognized and respected, or does it sound flaky?

[withnail]

All things considered Kaypea, I'd go for the Canadian Teacher Degree - but the issue is it's bricks and mortar isn't it so you can't do it here!

The University of Birmingham Online MA in TESOL is the best one bar none in my opinion and the best one to do while working in Korea ( but there's some pretty tough competition from ones in the US like Missouri) so I guess for you it's a question of doing it back home or doing it in Korea. You can make more money here but the Canadian degree safeguards your future if you don't stay in TESOL....

Difficult one. I guess it depends on your priorities!!

[withnail]

Don't for a moment worry that the Ontario degree sounds wishy-washy - that doesn't matter here. They'd respect that here in Korea as it's a Masters (their first priority) and in Education, even better! That won't disadvantage you here one little bit!!! That's why I think it's the best option as you'll be able to teach in Canada when this Korean adventure is over but....

You can't do that here so...

Big decision! Depends how much you want to live in Korea for the next few years....I suppose you could do both - The Birmingham one would take 2.5 years......