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KoreanAmbition

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: University hiring - does brand matter? |
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I'm starting this topic in hopes of getting some information that has eluded the couple other university job discussions that are currently running.
When an applicant's resume is being screened in the hiring process, how much value/weight is given to:
1. the brand-name university someone got their degree from?
2. the reputation of the Korean university someone has worked for?
Obviously this changes depending on the school that is hiring, and also the schools the applicant has on their resume. But it seems some people on here are/have been involved with their school's hiring process, so I think it would be interesting to hear their opinions. |
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Demophobe

Joined: 17 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: Re: University hiring - does brand matter? |
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KoreanAmbition wrote: |
When an applicant's resume is being screened in the hiring process, how much value/weight is given to:
1. the brand-name university someone got their degree from?
2. the reputation of the Korean university someone has worked for?
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1. It looks good, but ultimately means nothing. So, not much. No idiots at Harvard? There are fanboys (every Korean) and haters (insecure people) and even I will admit that I will examine an app with those creds closely and certainly put a bit of value on it, but it is far from a deciding factor.
2. This matters more to me. As has been outlined, unis are not all the same. If some has been at Yonsei, that's impressive; from what I understand they don't just hire anyone and have a rigorous hiring procedure and get a lot of applications (high competition). Those who get in are good.
If someone has been at a uni that hires comparatively easily or a uni that I have never heard of, then frankly not much. The lack of competition means a lot to me; a uni hire in itself isn't a big deal, but besting a great number of certainly well-qualified applicants (like the big unis have; what with MA-only, etc) that holds some water. What I am trying to say is that many unis will hire more easily and from a smaller pool; to me, this is not the best indication of quality.
However...really in my heart, I think everyone (qualified everyone; a BA, a couple of years in TESOL and some self-development are the minimum; I have outlined this in other threads) deserves an interview. This is the litmus test; a teaching demo and an interview. It is much easier to sort people out professionally face to face.
One thing that trumps all for me: a strong recommendation from a teacher whom I respect. So long as they have the creds to be there, a top recommendation from a proven teacher means a lot to everyone on a hiring committee, Korean or Western. |
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KoreanAmbition

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Demophobe,
Your comments are very interesting...do you think that a lot of schools think in similar ways?
I have a few questions for anyone regarding letters of reference:
1. At what point are letters of reference considered?
I thought checking references was something that happens further into the hiring process after all the initial screening (and maybe even interviewing) has been done? I thought letters of reference were the last "check" in the process, but I sort of get the impression Demophobe might be saying they come early in the process when all the other factors are being examined as well.
2. Is a letter of reference considered exactly equivalent to just offering the name of a reference and saying that it's no problem to call them? I have a very good reference, but so far I haven't asked him for a letter... I just thought I'd offer his name and contact information with the application. I'm sort of thinking maybe that doesn't look as good. Any opinions?
3. If you give a letter of reference, how often are they called?
4. If good references are really important, then how many top references should someone provide if they really want to impress a hiring committee?
Hopefully these questions help build this topic's discussion in addition to the first 2 questions in the original post.
Cheers. |
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Demophobe

Joined: 17 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: |
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KoreanAmbition wrote: |
Demophobe,
Your comments are very interesting...do you think that a lot of schools think in similar ways? |
I am not a school and speak only for myself.  |
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KoreanAmbition

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:43 am Post subject: |
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I just meant I wondered if you knew how other schools operated... thanks for your input thus far though. |
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HapKi

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
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For me some things stand out. Our school has no year caps, so I tend to have a certain bias against applicants who have worked at many universities. I suppose a lot of good teachers get let go because of term restrictions (and that's pretty easy to spot), but experience spread out over several schools in 1 year increments says to me a problem teacher.
As for 2, the schools you have worked for and their reputation, it's really not so important to me (to a degree). If Yonsei is so good, why are you leaving? As I understand it, if you were a good teacher, the school will find a way to keep you.
And as I said in another thread, while an MA is the obvious better choice in most cases, someone who is currently "in the zone" with a MA in progress and its attention to theory as it relates to qualitative classroom reaseach is a plus, in my opinion.
Overall, a fine balance of eagerness, willingness to follow protocal, and an easy-going personality, along with experience, commanding classroom presence, Korean cultural awareness, pride in work, and self-motivation (plus a bit of TEFL theory and classroom application), and you have the ideal candidate. |
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ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: I drink therefore I am!
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: Re: University hiring - does brand matter? |
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KoreanAmbition wrote: |
I'm starting this topic in hopes of getting some information that has eluded the couple other university job discussions that are currently running.
When an applicant's resume is being screened in the hiring process, how much value/weight is given to:
1. the brand-name university someone got their degree from?
2. the reputation of the Korean university someone has worked for?
Obviously this changes depending on the school that is hiring, and also the schools the applicant has on their resume. But it seems some people on here are/have been involved with their school's hiring process, so I think it would be interesting to hear their opinions. |
At my uni, #1 is definitely important. If you have a degree from a top American or British uni, you have a definite advantage over the competition. When we have visitors, they round-up the ivy leaguers for introductions.
#2 is not so important since the Koreans think a waegook would not understand the Korean system. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
1. the brand-name university someone got their degree from?
2. the reputation of the Korean university someone has worked for? |
1- That depends. If the university is accredited and if the applicant has the other qualifications not much difference is made. Say Applicant A is from Harvard with a MA in History and Applicant B is from Ottawa Univeristy with a MA in Education...well App B is ranked higher. If both have MAs in Education then experience comes into play. Regardless I would say the interview would be the deciding factor there.
2- As long as the work experience is referenced it would not matter all that much. Of course a bottom pile University does not look as good as say Yonsei on a Resume. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
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1. At what point are letters of reference considered? |
Upon application and during Resume screening.
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2. Is a letter of reference considered exactly equivalent to just offering the name of a reference and saying that it's no problem to call them? I have a very good reference, but so far I haven't asked him for a letter... I just thought I'd offer his name and contact information with the application. I'm sort of thinking maybe that doesn't look as good. Any opinions? |
They are two different things. The letter is the base requirement. The reference was contacted so FULL contact information was needed.
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3. If you give a letter of reference, how often are they called? |
They were and are called each time after the applicant completes the interview.
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4. If good references are really important, then how many top references should someone provide if they really want to impress a hiring committee? |
3-4 from diverse backgrounds. One should be academic (Thesis director for example), the others professional (former employer for example). All rerefences are called and all degrees are verified. |
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Demophobe

Joined: 17 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: |
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HapKi wrote: |
As for 2, the schools you have worked for and their reputation, it's really not so important to me (to a degree). If Yonsei is so good, why are you leaving? As I understand it, if you were a good teacher, the school will find a way to keep you.
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While I certainly agree with what you say, you would be surprised how fickle these places can be. Also how cheap; they seem to know when they cannot hold a teacher back, short of offering a boatload of cash, a case in which their hands are usually tied by budgets and protocol.
Universities (the biggies) cannot just create salaries; they have criteria, by which all employees are governed, which are not so easy to work around, regardless of performance. Typically in Korea, raises (titles) are based on time, not performance. |
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KoreanAmbition

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
2. Is a letter of reference considered exactly equivalent to just offering the name of a reference and saying that it's no problem to call them? I have a very good reference, but so far I haven't asked him for a letter... I just thought I'd offer his name and contact information with the application. I'm sort of thinking maybe that doesn't look as good. Any opinions? |
They are two different things. The letter is the base requirement. The reference was contacted so FULL contact information was needed.
I think I'm asking something a bit different.
I have a professor that offered to write a letter for me or whatever I needed. I told him not to bother and said that it would be fine if I just give his name and that should be all that is needed.
I've only asked a couple universities so far and they seemed to say it was okay, but I'm wondering if in fact they don't value it.
It's the best reference that that I have... and up until now I didn't worry about needing an actual letter... I figured just his name was sufficient.
I'm wondering if I'm making a mistake. |
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