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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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 Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: Is the market really this saturated? |
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That people on F visas are taking part-time jobs for less than 50k an hour?
I've see a ton of part time jobs recently offering lowball hourly rates, and even 50k an hour is a joke (considering the agency farming them out is keeping at least half the money, and you get NO benefits, health care, etc.).
Especially the corporate jobs, which have a standard pay of 100 an hour to the agency.
When you can teach Min Soo the ABCs for 50k an hour in your apt. complex, who takes these P/T school/business jobs at less than that?
Do they really find legit teachers to take these jobs, or is it just a way to fish for illegals, and E2s willing to break the law?
I'm not trying to rant, but %^$%, maybe people don't even realize how much they're being ripped off on these contracts (F visas), or don't care becuase they're working illgally anyway (everyone else)?
Tough times apparently. |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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I've had tons of experience and lots of quals with an F2 but am only in the country for a few months so I'm working some at 50K and an evening block at 30K.
I don't really know if the market is saturated or if it's a case of:
-not much seems available judging by worknplay,ES
-jobs snapped up by Canadian skateboarder tourists
-school/ hagwon admin setting maximum rates ie get us a teacher, ANY teacher.
-companies dropping English from their training
-recruiters creaming off profits or their income has reduced
There are some good paying jobs I've noted eg SK 10 weeks-10 million, but if you interview with idiots , then you have to fall back on these other ones so there's money coming in. |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote: |
I've had tons of experience and lots of quals with an F2 but am only in the country for a few months so I'm working some at 50K and an evening block at 30K.
I don't really know if the market is saturated or if it's a case of:
-not much seems available judging by worknplay,ES
-jobs snapped up by Canadian skateboarder tourists
-school/ hagwon admin setting maximum rates ie get us a teacher, ANY teacher.
-companies dropping English from their training
-recruiters creaming off profits or their income has reduced
There are some good paying jobs I've noted eg SK 10 weeks-10 million, but if you interview with idiots , then you have to fall back on these other ones so there's money coming in. |
I agree there seems to be less budget for English (or any language ed.) recently, and we all know the cheap &$% Korean school owners could care less about quality, if they even were able to distinguish it in the first place.
The sad thing is they cry about the "quality" of education (not just English), but the problem is of their own making. They get what they pay for in the end, and then complain about it after the fact. It's a culture "thing" apparently.
You're right though, there's still a few diamonds in the rough, if you search them out, but it's like a needle in a haystack these days.
30k an hour? ouch. Why not just get your tutor's license and work at home. I don't see how people cover their costs on that. When you calculate travel time, and expense, you're making McDonald's $$.
I guess they can hire Indians and Philippinos for even less, but doubt Koreans will ever figure out the "root" of their "problem". At least they haven't so far.
Besides, they know the "best" teacher is "young" teacher (w/zero exp.), not "old" teacher (w/tons of exp.), because �young� teacher works for less $$$$.  |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: |
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If an F-visa has to factor in travel time and expenses AND THEN ends up making McDonalds money...
then what is the McDonalds worker earning after HE factors in travel and expenses?
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
If an F-visa has to factor in travel time and expenses AND THEN ends up making McDonalds money...
then what is the McDonalds worker earning after HE factors in travel and expenses?
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The thing is, the McDonalds worker doesn't work at 4 different McDonalds a day, on 1-3 hour shifts.
That's only for Pizza Hut workers.
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ja, Ich bin ein English Arbeiter.
I dunno, a 4-5 hour block with steady money at a lower rate, I'd take it. It's with advanced adult students so is actually stimulating. There's still the better paying morning jobs to complement it. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think it also depends on how many hours in 1 location, if it's only 1 hour and a half hour travelling is involved, any less than 50k is slave labour.
If however they have 3 classes lined up back to back at 1 location, the lower price becomes more acceptable. (It's up to you though) |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Netz wrote: |
| KoreanAmbition wrote: |
If an F-visa has to factor in travel time and expenses AND THEN ends up making McDonalds money...
then what is the McDonalds worker earning after HE factors in travel and expenses?
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The thing is, the McDonalds worker doesn't work at 4 different McDonalds a day, on 1-3 hour shifts.
That's only for Pizza Hut workers.
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haha Pizza Hut
Netz,
One thing I think you have to consider is that "off-the-boat" western teachers think differently about wages than seasoned veterans that have been in Korea a while.
Take 35,000 won per hour. That's about $30 Canadian per hour. Most people coming from overseas don't ever have jobs that pay that kind of money.
When those "off-the-boat" western teachers get back on the boat and go home in a couple years, there is a good chance that once again they won't be seeing any jobs for $30 per hour.
Therefore, while they're here in Korea, they probably consider that money extremely attractive, and are willing to work to earn that money now.
Although 50,000 won per hour is a rate that a lot of F-visa holders won't ever work for less than, it nonetheless is a very high rate of pay. I don't think all workers believe they can earn that much money. In fact, I think this forum has seen several teachers that have F-visas and cannot earn that much money on average. Possibly, those that can always earn 50,000 won per hour are fortunate.
Anyways, in the end, it all beats working for McDonald's or Pizza Hut, and I'd certainly take 30,000 won per hour (including an hour of travel) instead of a few hours at Micky-D's. Although, the perk of cheap/free food is quite enticing to me on this early Monday morning. |
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jpotter78
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Netz wrote: |
| halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote: |
I've had tons of experience and lots of quals with an F2 but am only in the country for a few months so I'm working some at 50K and an evening block at 30K.
I don't really know if the market is saturated or if it's a case of:
-not much seems available judging by worknplay,ES
-jobs snapped up by Canadian skateboarder tourists
-school/ hagwon admin setting maximum rates ie get us a teacher, ANY teacher.
-companies dropping English from their training
-recruiters creaming off profits or their income has reduced
There are some good paying jobs I've noted eg SK 10 weeks-10 million, but if you interview with idiots , then you have to fall back on these other ones so there's money coming in. |
I agree there seems to be less budget for English (or any language ed.) recently, and we all know the cheap &$% Korean school owners could care less about quality, if they even were able to distinguish it in the first place.
The sad thing is they cry about the "quality" of education (not just English), but the problem is of their own making. They get what they pay for in the end, and then complain about it after the fact. It's a culture "thing" apparently.
You're right though, there's still a few diamonds in the rough, if you search them out, but it's like a needle in a haystack these days.
30k an hour? ouch. Why not just get your tutor's license and work at home. I don't see how people cover their costs on that. When you calculate travel time, and expense, you're making McDonald's $$.
I guess they can hire Indians and Philippinos for even less, but doubt Koreans will ever figure out the "root" of their "problem". At least they haven't so far.
Besides, they know the "best" teacher is "young" teacher (w/zero exp.), not "old" teacher (w/tons of exp.), because �young� teacher works for less $$$$. |
30K an hour is McDonalds $$?
Let's do some math. You teach 5 classes a day, 5 days a week, 20 days a month = 3 mil. You are not rich, but your are definitely making more than most Hagwons. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jpotter78 wrote: |
30K an hour is McDonalds $$?
Let's do some math. You teach 5 classes a day, 5 days a week, 20 days a month = 3 mil. You are not rich, but your are definitely making more than most Hagwons. |
Korea really skews a lot of people's financial perspective.
30K/hr is more like what a lot of starting engineers make. McDonald's at home pays more like $10 bucks an hour. |
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loyfriend
Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Keep in mind pizza hut or MD's don't give health insurance.
10 dollars an hour. I lived in California and they gave 8.25. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| loyfriend wrote: |
Keep in mind pizza hut or MD's don't give health insurance.
10 dollars an hour. I lived in California and they gave 8.25. |
Okay around, probably under $10/hr... |
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loyfriend
Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| We were lucky, bug states liek New York, california and so on have high min wages. Some of my family lives in Indiana and Walmart Md's give 5.15 an hour lol. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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The minimum wage in Australia is over $14 an hour, $20 is easily obtainable.
I recently took a job at an insulting hourly rate because I need money for the upcoming birth of our daughter. I stay here because my wife is Korean but everyday, I am convincing her that Australia is our future.
w50,000 per hour is not pay it is revenue from which you need to deduct work expenses, preparation, books, gas, vehicle running costs. F2's need to make health insurance and pension contributions at the full rate even though we get most of our tax back in the unlikely event that it gets remitted to the NTS.
w50,000 per hour say 1 hour of travel time, 30 minutes of preparation, 1 hour of teaching time, w2,000 for parking, w3000 for gas, depreciation and car running costs. tax w1,650, health insurance w2,045, pension w4,500, book printing etc w500, mobile phone calls w500.
This means you are making w35,805 for 2.5 hours or w14,322 per hour.
While I recognise that most jobs don't pay you for travel time, it is a factor when you are working here, there and everywhere. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Big fella,
I hate to say it but I think that your comparison is somewhat pessimistic and exagerrated. You seem to assume these are all "strict" classes... there are all kinds of classes for just conversation or casual situations... some are just entertaining young children...
How about my cost breakdown:
50,000 won per hour.
Travel time? Set up your schedule properly and get other things done at the same time. There's all kinds of jobs, you can work where it's convenient.
0 prep-time because you've taught it before...after all, why should someone get 50,000 won per hour if they have never done it before... I'm "green" so it's like recycling.
2,000 won = No parking, no gas, I take the subway. And since you're not actually just doing ONE hour... you're going to work 2 at least in that area... so it's only 1,000 won.
Mobile phone calls? Internet = Free.
Book printing? How about 1 or 2 photocopies from your regular place of work or your home printer.
I'm Canadian, so I get my pension back = ZERO.
I'll give you the tax and health insurance combined for 3,800 won.
Take home = 45,000 won per hour.
Last edited by KoreanAmbition on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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