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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:09 pm Post subject: Bloody Sunday: 38 years on, justice at last |
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I have no time to loiter on this time-eating forum for the moment, but I thought I'd pop in and start the thread. 
| The British prime minister wrote: |
"I never want to call into question the behaviour of our soldiers and our army, who I believe to be the finest in the world," Cameron told the Commons.
"But the conclusions of this report are absolutely clear. There is no doubt, there is nothing equivocal, there are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong." |
I've been following this news story for quite some time now, and it astonishes me that no-one in this forum has dedicated a thread to it. I suppose that's a reflection of the ethnic make up of this board though, which tends to focus on issues pertaining to the US. But I would have thought enough of you would have Irish ancestory.
Just listening to the video clip and hearing the primeminister saying sorry, feels amazing. Very moving. A great moment. As he said it, I felt a strange relief.
Watch the short video clip: Bloody Sunday: 38 years on, justice at last
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� Saville report finds Bloody Sunday killings 'unjustified'
� Cameron apologises for 1972 shooting of innocent marchers
� Soldiers could be prosecuted for murder or lying to inquiry |
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After a 38-year struggle for truth and justice campaigners for those killed in Derry on Bloody Sunday tonight celebrated the Saville Report's exoneration of the victims and the report's unequivocal conclusion that the shootings were "unjustified".
The Bloody Sunday tribunal's repeated use of the term "unjustifiable" throughout the 5,000-page report, and its verdict that soldiers had lied to the inquiry, now opens up the possibility of legal action against former troops involved in the atrocity.
Fourteen unarmed civilians were shot dead by the Parachute Regiment which had been sent into Derry's Bogside on 30 January 1972. The deaths propelled a generation of nationalists into the Provisional IRA.
Saville's conclusion that none of the 14 dead was carrying a gun, no warnings were given, no soldiers were under threat and the troops were the first to open fire, marked a final declaration of innocence for the victims of the biggest British military killing of civilians on UK soil since the Peterloo massacre in 1819. |
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| "None of the firing by the Support Company (Paratroopers) was aimed at people posing a threat or causing death or serious injury," he said. "Despite the contrary evidence given by the soldiers, we have concluded that none of them fired in response to attacks or threatened attacks by nail or petrol bombers. No one threw or threatened to throw a nail or petrol bomb at the soldiers on Bloody Sunday." |
38 years, 4 months and 15 days. If only there had been an honest and transparent investigation 38 years ago. If only the British government and army had properly apologised and accepted the blame when it happened. 1972 was a huge turning point for the IRA. Bloody Sunday was a recruitment bonanza. And thousands more went on to needlessly die. It might have all been very different.
Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2
As someone commented beneath the youtube clip, "you don't send in the Paras to win hearts and minds..." What a **** up. I find myself also drawing a few parallels with the recent Mami Marmara fiasco. Paras/commandos and civillians do not mix. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
It's not pro-IRA either, as some think. It's a protest song against the whole sorry situation - the unnecessary violence and death.
In that particular clip, the names of those who died on Bloody Sunday flash across the screen. The names Bono calls out at the end are those who died in Omagh Bombing, which was undertaken by the Real IRA (a break away faction of the provisional IRA).
I believe by 'the men who made a brave choice' he means those who put away their guns and turned to peaceful negotiation and made difficult compromises. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Looks like I'm not the only one making connections between the Bloody Sunday massacre and the Gaza Flotilla massacre.
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| Had the British state been speedily held to account at The Hague, things might have been different for a lot of people, not least for nine Turkish human rights activists on their way to Gaza. They might not have been so confidently slaughtered by the state of Israel. |
Bloody Sunday: Put Britain in the dock |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
Here's an interactive guide describing events. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:47 am Post subject: Devlin!!!!! |
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Well now! How's that for a credible source?!
1) Published in the Guardian 
2) Written by Bernadette Devlin  the Catholic hero turned atheist(more true to form). Once described as "Fidel Castro in a miniskirt".
3) Note how she hasn't changed tack a bit. Note her semantics: Turkish "human rights" activists who were "slaughtered" by the Je...er, sorry...the Zio...er, sorry...the Israelis. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
I thought it was about the local pub being shut down on Sundays |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: |
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An interesting thread.
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Looks like I'm not the only one making connections between the Bloody Sunday massacre and the Gaza Flotilla massacre.
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| Had the British state been speedily held to account at The Hague, things might have been different for a lot of people, not least for nine Turkish human rights activists on their way to Gaza. They might not have been so confidently slaughtered by the state of Israel. |
Bloody Sunday: Put Britain in the dock |
A very weak link. Israel will do what it wants regardless of what is thought of it, provided the US continues to support it. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
An interesting thread.
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Looks like I'm not the only one making connections between the Bloody Sunday massacre and the Gaza Flotilla massacre.
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| Had the British state been speedily held to account at The Hague, things might have been different for a lot of people, not least for nine Turkish human rights activists on their way to Gaza. They might not have been so confidently slaughtered by the state of Israel. |
Bloody Sunday: Put Britain in the dock |
A very weak link. Israel will do what it wants regardless of what is thought of it, provided the US continues to support it. |
Indeed. But her point was that if we truly had a world system where governments were brought to account for these things, and put on trial in a world court, they would happen far less. But that's nothing but a dream, at this stage of human history. Nuremburg was a short glimpse of what could be. But alas, one law for the losers, another for the powerful and those with powerful friends. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I thought Cameron rose to the occasion very well, and did his nation proud. This writer agrees
David Cameron's statement on the Bloody Sunday report was pitch-perfect
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At 3.29pm the news had been leaked in Derry, and the cheers of the crowd burst from every TV in the Commons as we dashed to hear David Cameron's statement. He, by contrast, was received in a sombre, almost fearful silence. MPs might not have been surprised, but they were certainly stunned.
The prime minister could scarcely have done better. For a man who was five at the time of Bloody Sunday, it was a poised and almost perfectly judged performance.
And all the more difficult for someone who has had to spend years paying tribute to the fallen of the British army � their courage and their devotion to their country.
When it comes to our lads in uniform few politicians, least of all Tories, want to say anything that isn't cut from a template of praise.
"I never want to believe anything bad about our country," he said. He never wanted to call our soldiers into question. They were, he believed, the finest in the world. Clearly an enormous "but" was on its way.
"But. The conclusions of this report are absolutely clear. There is no doubt. There is nothing equivocal. There are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong."
The Commons was, if possible, even quieter as he went through the most startling and shattering of Saville's conclusions. No warning before the soldiers opened first, soldiers lying to justify their actions. Some of the dead had been fleeing or going to the aid of the wounded. Each sentence slashed through the silence.
"The report refers to one person who was shot while 'crawling ... away from the soldiers'. The father who was hit and injured while going to tend his wounded son."
I doubt if the Commons has ever heard such a statement so raw, etching with acid into the polished surface of our national self-image.
For someone of his generation, he said, Bloody Sunday was something learned rather than lived through. "But what happened should never, ever have happened ... and for that, on behalf of the government � and indeed our country � I am deeply sorry."
He also set the day in context, reminding us of the scores of soldiers � for the most part as innocent as any civilian � shot dead because they were wearing a politically inconvenient uniform. The IRA would never be put on an equal footing with democrats, he said.
"But neither will we hide from the truth that confronts us today."
As Lord Saville had said, Bloody Sunday was a tremendous boon to the Provisional IRA, and made the continuing conflict far, far worse. (Of the 3,500 people who died during the 40-odd years of the Troubles, one-seventh were killed in the year after that day.)
Various Unionists, including Ian Paisley Jr, watched by his father from the gallery, pointed out the sufferings of the Protestant people of the province. They should not be forgotten.
But this was not their day.
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
I thought it was about the local pub being shut down on Sundays |
You'd probably appreciate the first minute or so of this then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QRlR0ctjNE&feature=related |
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Interested
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Now I know what the U2 song is about. |
It's not pro-IRA either, as some think. It's a protest song against the whole sorry situation - the unnecessary violence and death.
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This is a great clip made of U2 performing the song live in the US on the day of the Enniskillen bombing (which killed 11) - also known as the Remembrance Day Bombing.
Part way through the song Bono came out with this:
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| Well let me tell you something! I've had enough of Irish-Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance; the revolution back home, and the glory of the revolution and the glory of dying for the revolution. *beep* the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old-aged pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day? Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying, or crippled for life, or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. |
This performance is one of my favourite. I recommend that those Irish Americans who still feel fired up about 'the cause' have a good listen to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9c4lLnY0rA&feature=related |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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