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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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NEW AIYANSH, B.C. -- A northwestern B.C. First Nation has passed a historic law allowing Nisga'a citizens to own their own property, in New Aiyansh, north of Terrace, B.C.
After years of consultations with Nisga'a communities in the Nass Valley and in Vancouver, Prince Rupert and Terrace, the Nisga'a have passed Nisga'a Landholding Transition Act.
It is the first time in Canada that an aboriginal group has approved legislation to allow for private property rights.
Under the legislation, and starting sometime in the spring, citizens will have the opportunity to own their own homes. A Nisga'a citizen who obtains title to their property under the legislation will be able to mortgage their property as security for a loan, or to transfer, bequeath, lease or sell their property to anyone, according to the Nisga'a Lisims government.
"This is a significant step toward true self government. It is a process for increasing economic prosperity for our people," said Nelson Leeson, president of the Nisga'a Nation, in a statement, on the Nisga'a Lisims government website.
"It is important for us to be able to find ways of building capacity for our people so that they can stand on their own."
The Nisga'a Nation is home to about 6,400 Nisga'a citizens.
New Aiyansh is the largest of the communities of the Nisga'a First Nation. It is situated near the Nass River, just north of Terrace. Terrace is located about 550 kilometres northwest of Prince George, B.C. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
NEW AIYANSH, B.C. -- A northwestern B.C. First Nation has passed a historic law allowing Nisga'a citizens to own their own property, in New Aiyansh, north of Terrace, B.C.
After years of consultations with Nisga'a communities in the Nass Valley and in Vancouver, Prince Rupert and Terrace, the Nisga'a have passed Nisga'a Landholding Transition Act.
It is the first time in Canada that an aboriginal group has approved legislation to allow for private property rights.
Under the legislation, and starting sometime in the spring, citizens will have the opportunity to own their own homes. A Nisga'a citizen who obtains title to their property under the legislation will be able to mortgage their property as security for a loan, or to transfer, bequeath, lease or sell their property to anyone, according to the Nisga'a Lisims government.
"This is a significant step toward true self government. It is a process for increasing economic prosperity for our people," said Nelson Leeson, president of the Nisga'a Nation, in a statement, on the Nisga'a Lisims government website.
"It is important for us to be able to find ways of building capacity for our people so that they can stand on their own."
The Nisga'a Nation is home to about 6,400 Nisga'a citizens.
New Aiyansh is the largest of the communities of the Nisga'a First Nation. It is situated near the Nass River, just north of Terrace. Terrace is located about 550 kilometres northwest of Prince George, B.C. |
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It's about time.
Lack of property rights is what has kept the native American population from developing and progressing for thousands of years. No matter how abundant or scarce any resource is, private ownership is essential for that resource to be properly valued and utilized in the marketplace and in the economy.
When essential resources are socialized, limits to market information and increased risk create insurmountable impediments to the ability of individuals to learn and progress, and to create and accumulate wealth and knowledge. These impediments can leave a society in a dark age where advancement is inhibited for thousands of years. This condition prevailed during Europe's dark ages and for thousands of years in North America. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Native Americans are at one with nature! If they implement capitalistic evils such as private property ownership, they will cease to be connected with the environment and their ancestors! |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| the native american nations in the US with private property rights have been doing just swimmingly. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
NEW AIYANSH, B.C. -- A northwestern B.C. First Nation has passed a historic law allowing Nisga'a citizens to own their own property, in New Aiyansh, north of Terrace, B.C.
After years of consultations with Nisga'a communities in the Nass Valley and in Vancouver, Prince Rupert and Terrace, the Nisga'a have passed Nisga'a Landholding Transition Act.
It is the first time in Canada that an aboriginal group has approved legislation to allow for private property rights.
Under the legislation, and starting sometime in the spring, citizens will have the opportunity to own their own homes. A Nisga'a citizen who obtains title to their property under the legislation will be able to mortgage their property as security for a loan, or to transfer, bequeath, lease or sell their property to anyone, according to the Nisga'a Lisims government.
"This is a significant step toward true self government. It is a process for increasing economic prosperity for our people," said Nelson Leeson, president of the Nisga'a Nation, in a statement, on the Nisga'a Lisims government website.
"It is important for us to be able to find ways of building capacity for our people so that they can stand on their own."
The Nisga'a Nation is home to about 6,400 Nisga'a citizens.
New Aiyansh is the largest of the communities of the Nisga'a First Nation. It is situated near the Nass River, just north of Terrace. Terrace is located about 550 kilometres northwest of Prince George, B.C. |
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It's about time.
Lack of property rights is what has kept the native American population from developing and progressing for thousands of years. No matter how abundant or scarce any resource is, private ownership is essential for that resource to be properly valued and utilized in the marketplace and in the economy.
When essential resources are socialized, limits to market information and increased risk create insurmountable impediments to the ability of individuals to learn and progress, and to create and accumulate wealth and knowledge. These impediments can leave a society in a dark age where advancement is inhibited for thousands of years. This condition prevailed during Europe's dark ages and for thousands of years in North America. |
The Native Americans never progressed much because their society was an ungoverned, disorganized mess. This is why more heavily governed, more advanced Europeans conquered them so utterly.
You can keep pretending that the fact that Native Americans never drew up private land ownership deeds due to land being an essentially unlimited resource for them is the reason they never amounted to much, but I don't think it's going to win any people over to your unrealist philosophy. Nothing was stopping any given Native American from developing land however he chose, and what he produced would have been his to do with as he wished. They just didn't do so, because they were all ultimately stuck acting on an individual scale. It's only when we form governed, organized society that we start acting in a truly collective fashion and begin specializing in fields which cause human advancements. Libertarians like the Native Americans didn't end up doing that.
Your philosophy was tested, and it failed. Historic human advancement and historic advancement towards Socialized society have gone hand in hand. We live in a more Socialized world than ever before, and we have a higher overall standard of living than ever before. Your snake oil can't triump over simple, obvious truths like that.
Of course, if I'm wrong, you can always prove it. You've said under your system, standard of living would be 10 times higher than what it is now. Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. If your system really would result in such an economic powerhouse, it should very quickly be able to compensate those investors, and then go on to economically dominate the world, especially since the best and brightest should be flocking to your banner in order to take advantage of this ridiculously high quality lifestyle.
Strange how this never happens. Strange how proponents of your society all just sit on the fringes whining instead of ever actually implementing your ideology. Strange how so few of you are even economic successes in your own right. Perhaps you should prove your economic knowledge can enrich yourselves, before you insist it can enrich us all. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. |
This has been tried. The US shat on it every time. Reason mag runs articles on the subject now and then. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. |
This has been tried. The US shat on it every time. Reason mag runs articles on the subject now and then. |
Could you possibly either link those articles (if they're availible online) or summarize how the United States ruined such efforts? |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Fox wrote: |
The Native Americans never progressed much because their society was an ungoverned, disorganized mess. This is why more heavily governed, more advanced Europeans conquered them so utterly.
You can keep pretending that the fact that Native Americans never drew up private land ownership deeds due to land being an essentially unlimited resource for them is the reason they never amounted to much, but I don't think it's going to win any people over to your unrealist philosophy. Nothing was stopping any given Native American from developing land however he chose, and what he produced would have been his to do with as he wished. They just didn't do so, because they were all ultimately stuck acting on an individual scale. It's only when we form governed, organized society that we start acting in a truly collective fashion and begin specializing in fields which cause human advancements. Libertarians like the Native Americans didn't end up doing that.
Your philosophy was tested, and it failed. Historic human advancement and historic advancement towards Socialized society have gone hand in hand. We live in a more Socialized world than ever before, and we have a higher overall standard of living than ever before. Your snake oil can't triump over simple, obvious truths like that.
Of course, if I'm wrong, you can always prove it. You've said under your system, standard of living would be 10 times higher than what it is now. Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. If your system really would result in such an economic powerhouse, it should very quickly be able to compensate those investors, and then go on to economically dominate the world, especially since the best and brightest should be flocking to your banner in order to take advantage of this ridiculously high quality lifestyle.
Strange how this never happens. Strange how proponents of your society all just sit on the fringes whining instead of ever actually implementing your ideology. Strange how so few of you are even economic successes in your own right. Perhaps you should prove your economic knowledge can enrich yourselves, before you insist it can enrich us all. |
Why so angry? |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Fox wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. |
This has been tried. The US shat on it every time. Reason mag runs articles on the subject now and then. |
Could you possibly either link those articles (if they're availible online) or summarize how the United States ruined such efforts? |
I know literally nothing about this topic. Here is a google search for ya. Maybe you have heard of it? The google. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
The Native Americans never progressed much because their society was an ungoverned, disorganized mess. This is why more heavily governed, more advanced Europeans conquered them so utterly.
You can keep pretending that the fact that Native Americans never drew up private land ownership deeds due to land being an essentially unlimited resource for them is the reason they never amounted to much, but I don't think it's going to win any people over to your unrealist philosophy. Nothing was stopping any given Native American from developing land however he chose, and what he produced would have been his to do with as he wished. They just didn't do so, because they were all ultimately stuck acting on an individual scale. It's only when we form governed, organized society that we start acting in a truly collective fashion and begin specializing in fields which cause human advancements. Libertarians like the Native Americans didn't end up doing that.
Your philosophy was tested, and it failed. Historic human advancement and historic advancement towards Socialized society have gone hand in hand. We live in a more Socialized world than ever before, and we have a higher overall standard of living than ever before. Your snake oil can't triump over simple, obvious truths like that.
Of course, if I'm wrong, you can always prove it. You've said under your system, standard of living would be 10 times higher than what it is now. Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. If your system really would result in such an economic powerhouse, it should very quickly be able to compensate those investors, and then go on to economically dominate the world, especially since the best and brightest should be flocking to your banner in order to take advantage of this ridiculously high quality lifestyle.
Strange how this never happens. Strange how proponents of your society all just sit on the fringes whining instead of ever actually implementing your ideology. Strange how so few of you are even economic successes in your own right. Perhaps you should prove your economic knowledge can enrich yourselves, before you insist it can enrich us all. |
Why so angry? |
Not angry at all. I simply write aggressively in the face of ideas I disagree with. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. |
This has been tried. The US shat on it every time. Reason mag runs articles on the subject now and then. |
Could you possibly either link those articles (if they're availible online) or summarize how the United States ruined such efforts? |
I know literally nothing about this topic. Here is a google search for ya. Maybe you have heard of it? The google. |
Are you insisting I google it myself, or what? I don't see a search link provided in your post. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
The Native Americans never progressed much because their society was an ungoverned, disorganized mess. This is why more heavily governed, more advanced Europeans conquered them so utterly.
You can keep pretending that the fact that Native Americans never drew up private land ownership deeds due to land being an essentially unlimited resource for them is the reason they never amounted to much, but I don't think it's going to win any people over to your unrealist philosophy. Nothing was stopping any given Native American from developing land however he chose, and what he produced would have been his to do with as he wished. They just didn't do so, because they were all ultimately stuck acting on an individual scale. It's only when we form governed, organized society that we start acting in a truly collective fashion and begin specializing in fields which cause human advancements. Libertarians like the Native Americans didn't end up doing that.
Your philosophy was tested, and it failed. Historic human advancement and historic advancement towards Socialized society have gone hand in hand. We live in a more Socialized world than ever before, and we have a higher overall standard of living than ever before. Your snake oil can't triump over simple, obvious truths like that.
Of course, if I'm wrong, you can always prove it. You've said under your system, standard of living would be 10 times higher than what it is now. Find a few investors, buy up the Principality of Sealand, and prove it. If your system really would result in such an economic powerhouse, it should very quickly be able to compensate those investors, and then go on to economically dominate the world, especially since the best and brightest should be flocking to your banner in order to take advantage of this ridiculously high quality lifestyle.
Strange how this never happens. Strange how proponents of your society all just sit on the fringes whining instead of ever actually implementing your ideology. Strange how so few of you are even economic successes in your own right. Perhaps you should prove your economic knowledge can enrich yourselves, before you insist it can enrich us all. |
Why so angry? |
Not angry at all. I simply write aggressively in the face of ideas I disagree with. |
It just seems strange to be so worked up about it. In the current political climate Libertarianism is about as fringe as ideologies get. Meanwhile govt intervention is highly in vogue.
You're on the winning team. Relax. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: B.C. First Nation approves private property rights |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
It just seems strange to be so worked up about it. In the current political climate Libertarianism is about as fringe as ideologies get. Meanwhile govt intervention is highly in vogue.
You're on the winning team. Relax. |
The winning team right now takes goverment intervention both to degrees I'm not comfortable with, and in directions I'm not comfortable with. I know the Libertarians on this board don't fully grasp this, but I'm not comfortable with a lot of the things our government does, nor in the specific ways it goes about them. It's all the harder to argue in favor of reasonable reform when you have extremists like the Libertarians around, because they taint reform by association.
As I've said before, extremists hurt their cause far more than they help it with their totally unrealistic demands and outrageous claims. That's not a good thing for non-extremists who want some of the same things they do. It's why I'm so displeased with the "Tea Party" movement, for example. It's not that everything they say is wrong, but they go about it in such a fashion that the mainstream can't help but think they're lunatics, so even their good ideas are made to seem bad by association. That's inconvenient to someone who would like to see some of those good ideas move into mainstream thinking and get implemented. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: |
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It was impossible for any Native American to take any land, develop it, and more importantly, impossible to keep the fruits of his labor. It was against the moral code, the socialistic common framework of all NA tribes.
If any Indian had tried to take the requisite amount of land and hold it, he would have been lucky if he was just ignored from the outset. However, at the time when his husbandry began to bear the profitable fruits of ownership, the tribe would have claimed back his property and profit, stripping the would-have-been entrepreneur of all assets.
It was an era of stagnant socialism - a dark age with no learning or advancement It was illegal and impossible for the NAs to own property and for economic advancement to occur. EVERY history of every tribe is replete with evidence of this.
There is no historical example of any Native American owning land and the buffalo contained upon it and being able to exclude his tribesmembers from that property. This was the first essential step to the accumulation of wealth and assets and thereby, the financial means required in the currency of the day (food) to begin hiring workers and developing technology. It was never allowed.
No amount of ranting from Fox can change the reality of this. He is angry because he is wrong, has no facts, and has never studied economics, or economic history. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| It was impossible for any Native American to take any land, develop it, and more importantly, impossible to keep the fruits of his labor. |
No, it wasn't, and I'm not even going to dignify your assertions about what would have happened if only an Indian had tried to do so beyond pointing out that, as usual, your case relies 100% on baseless counterfactual assertions. I understand that's bread and butter for an ideological fanatic, but it's useless rubbish for people interested in real-world reform.
Enrich yourself before asserting you can enrich us all. |
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