Korean Job Discussion Forums

[themagicbean]

Under the Korean Constitution and statutory law, you (even E-2 foreigners) have THE RIGHT to form a union if your employer has more than 2 employees.

A hagwon in Incheon was trying to bully its 5-foreign-teacher crew. They stood up, called an attorney, and besides winning their labor case they have now also filed to form a union. The Ministry of Labor approved their filing yesterday.

If you're wondering, a national union is a no-go because Korean law says only the president can form national unions. (Hence ATEK is not a union.)

Union employees have two critical rights non-union employees do not: First, you can make union demands that have to be addressed. Instead of your employer saying "we'll talk about it later," they have to say yay or nay to your request. Second, you can strike. If you are not an MOL-approved union, you can be fired for informally striking. But a formal union strike is a right under the law and you cannot (legally) be axed for it.

Gloves are off!

(Source: Personal acquaintance working on their case.)

[cruisemonkey]

[Arthur Dent]

He didn't hear it from a friend of a friend. He knows the lawyer who helped them set it up. I know him too. Heard about this last week.

[lifeinkorea]

I have never seen the point in strikes or protests. Why don't they just give the individual the right to come and go as they please. Then the employer would have to treat the employee nicely if they want them to stay. Why must we have this one location rule, rally the troops, and fight a battle through protests and strikes?

We could easily get around this crap by just packing up our stuff and moving on to another school when mistreated. When will the attorneys, MOL, ATEK, whomever wake up and realize this?

I can go back to the US, get a job, if mistreated, put in my notice and move on. In Korea you are enslaved to one school and must beg your master to not treat you poorly.

I invite all to organize a weekend teaching event. Wherever you are, at a specific time all ESL teachers will go to a coffee shop and offer private lessons. I suggest March 1st, as it is the start of the new year in Asia. Mark it on your calendar and make a decisive action to teach privately and report your income to immigration.

That's how I protest, that's how I strike. Screw this red tape crap. We should be allowed to work and live where we want so long as we report our income come tax time.

Some would even argue against that.

[cruisemonkey]

[Arthur Dent]

[ttompatz]

Good news and bad news.

Good new is that under labor law you CAN unionize.

Bad new is that under immigration law your can lose your status of sojourn for doing it ( in lay terms - lose your visa and be ordered to leave the country).

.

[rt]

Why do you assume that the OP is NOT a lawyer? (or me either for that matter)?

And besides, to answer your question regarding why the disgrunteled teacher just doesn't pack up and leave, there is strength in numbers, remember? (thus the term "collective bargaining.")

I'll never forget the heartwrenching stories my coal mining grandfather told me as a young boy inthe early 1960's about how terrible his days were as a young laborer in the non union coal mines and how much they improved after the miners banded together and formed a labor union (the UMWA).

[TheUrbanMyth]

What about if you work at a public school where you are the token foreigner?

Can you be a labor union of one?

Anyway it's old news that foreigners (yes even E-2's) can join unions.

They just aren't permitted to engage in anything (even union-sanctioned) that might be construed as a political activity as that is grounds for losing the E-2 visa.

[nautilus]

[lifeinkorea]

[oskinny1]

[vaticanhotline]

[Rusty Shackleford]

[themagicbean]

@Rusty:

No. Just no.

Think about why unions generally lead to less overall employment--they generally function in an area where labor supply exceeds labor demand. If that were the case here, there wouldn't be the endless flood of recruiter and job ads we all see (even if those have declined somewhat in recent years).

Also think about who English teachers abroad are. Sure, some are lifers and KOTESOLites, but those people generally work their way up to decent jobs rather quickly. The people likely to get burnt and need to unioninze are the more transient backpacker types or newbies. They're not going to hog the jobs because they move on in their lives.

Third, the increase in entry barriers that accompanies the value (pay to laborer) of a position increasing will happen ... but to what degree? Right now hagwon owners and the shady types are very welcoming of anyone because they don't intend to actually live up to the contract terms. Now they will know in advance that the contract may actually be enforced, and hire people worth paying the advertised money to. Basically the new teacher now gets treated like he should have before--he must be good enough to actually warrant the terms and he can (hopefully) rely on those terms to come to light.

(This is one of those times where parroting 100-level economics course slogans actually doesn't work ...)

@ Whomever wanted to know about public schools:

I'm pretty sure that if there are more than 2 employees, you can unionize. But good luck getting the Koreans on board -- the teachers have their own national union and the admins are probably glad to have a job. However, multiple English teachers at multiple schools MAY be able to unionize IF the program (EPIK/GEPIK) is the employer, not the individual school. This issue hasn't been legally settled yet.

@ anyone whining about what unions won't do or saying this is nothing compared to visa portability
1. it's a step, not a solution
2. visa portability would be great (and better) but any victory in the meantime is a victory I'm glad for