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Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2%
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2% Reply with quote

More evidence that Korea's number one problem is not the hagwons. It's families being overworked, not having enough time for family. For the sake of Korea's future, I hope they realize this soon.

Childcare is still relatively cheap here, despite what they think it costs. Parents just don't have time to raise kids -- they work too much! THAT is the real elephant in the room (but it'll be too late before any action is taken to lessen the slave-driver, chaebol-driven workload). Parents don't need to pay for childcare when one parent can afford to stay home. That's the problem -- they can't stay home. Both have to work to make ends meet. The lucky families have grandma to raise the kid while mom and dad work!

Then there are people "working" and going out to the bars/room salons/night clubs past 10pm at night, instead of spending quality time with their spouse.

Insanely expensive housing also causes young people to avoid marriage.

I feel sorry for my Korean friends. Something needs to be done quickly, or full-blooded Koreans might find themselves in the minority within 50 years.

My guess is that mixed families won't find themselves facing the same cultural expectations and difficulties that traditional Korean families do. As someone mentioned in the comments, expectations are too high for Korean women who marry into a family. I believe a lot of women would just rather not deal with catering to the mother-in-law.


http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/11/123_56052.html
Quote:

By Lee Hyo-sik
Staff Reporter

The number of newborns has continued to fall for the past two years, with more young men and women delaying marriage.

Rising costs associated with childcare are also said to have discouraged many women here from having babies, making Korea the most rapidly aging nation in the world.

Statistics Korea said Tuesday that the number of babies born in September totaled 38,200 nationwide, down 4.7 percent from a year earlier, falling for the 19th consecutive month since February 2008 when it fell 4.6 percent.

In the first nine months of this year, 338,700 babies were born, down 4.6 percent from the same period last year..............
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda of a typical statistical evolution as a country gets more affluent and wealthy....

Birthrate goes down and divorce goes up as women gain more influence and status.

The problem Korea (and Japan) has is that there is virtually no immigration to counter the demographic decline.

Looking at western countries like say Canada...immigration is increasing to counter low birth rates in several provinces.

Your analysis is interesting bass but you glance over a few elements to make your point and I am not quite sure how relevant or related they are to the birthrate and divorce rate. For example, what proof do you have that Korean men (I assume you mean men) do not spend much quality time with their spouse and kids? Beyind what you see or hear (which of course is then stories and hearsay)?

Korean men work long hours but this has been the case for decades, or even well over 100 years. Yet the birth rate is down fairly recently no?

The new element is wealth (in relative terms) and changes in society. changes that go for the ratrace acquisiton of more goods like bigger appartments, bigger cars, more consumer goods in the house and so on. The race is on like back here in Canada where surprisingly the birthrate and divorce rate shot up as consumption increased and hence cost and as women started working as they gained ever increasing access to careers....



My two cents.
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Old Gil



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Birthrate goes down and divorce goes up as women gain more influence and status.


Yes, but Korea's problem is the degree to which this has happened while still being an emerging economic power.

Korea's birthrate and divorce rates have surged within a few years of it reaching a median income of $20k/yr. These things usually happen with older and more established economies, not an "Asian Tiger". Korea hit $10,000 per capita less than 20 years ago, this is happening way way too soon for this just to be about wealth and the status of women.

Also Korea's birthrate is not just lower than before, it's one of the lowest in the world and it has a 18th Century eugenic style of thinking that is absolutely at odds with a modern nation-state ready to accept immigration.

You're trying too hard to lump Korea in the rest of the developed world when there is something else at play here that it decidedly cultural.

Young Korean women don't want a Korean mother-in-law.
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Joe666



Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:
Quote:
Young Korean women don't want a Korean mother-in-law.


I have heard that the mother's-in-law of Korean women were "responsible" for a large portion of the divorces in this country. I just don't quite understand it. At one time, these mother-in-laws were once young and had to experience the same thing. One might think that over time, they would stop the cycle.
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Alaskaman



Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Location: Bundang-Gu, South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or what was done to them and how they were treated is the behavior they want to do so they do not feel like a victim. It has the same pattern as the cycle of abuse in the home. Dad hits mom, son then gets married and does the same as he does not completely understand that this behavior is outrageous. Just a though.....
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2% Reply with quote

bassexpander wrote:
Something needs to be done quickly, or full-blooded Koreans might find themselves in the minority within 50 years.


Why is this a problem?
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Xuanzang



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe666 wrote:
Old Gil wrote:
Quote:
Young Korean women don't want a Korean mother-in-law.


I have heard that the mother's-in-law of Korean women were "responsible" for a large portion of the divorces in this country. I just don't quite understand it. At one time, these mother-in-laws were once young and had to experience the same thing. One might think that over time, they would stop the cycle.


I think maybe they overcompensate and become the MILs they never wanted to be. Either that or they see it as payback for their overbeating MILs.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alaskaman wrote:
Or what was done to them and how they were treated is the behavior they want to do so they do not feel like a victim. It has the same pattern as the cycle of abuse in the home. Dad hits mom, son then gets married and does the same as he does not completely understand that this behavior is outrageous. Just a though.....


Yep, this is how hazing and abuse work. People who are abused or witness abuse when they are young and powerless are not less, but much more likely to become abusive when they become older and more powerful.

And then consider that the social fabric of Korea is completely based on older people using their seniority to haze younger people. The only reason they put up with it while they're young is because they know someday they will get their turn to do it to the next generation.
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The Goalie



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There may be factors at work that I don't understand (in fact I know there are) but as for decline in birthrate, I can't get too upset about it. I'll take planet over country, economy, fitness of our species, etc. any day. If we could curb the birthrate and stop spending so much money making people live longer perhaps we could get by fine with fewer people. I agree with what someone else said about immigration - better just to move people around than make new ones.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2% Reply with quote

bassexpander wrote:
Something needs to be done quickly, or full-blooded Koreans might find themselves in the minority within 50 years.

[/quote]

Oh come on...how is 1-2% of the population suddenly going to become +50% in 50 years.

I swear some people can't grasp how small of a drop in the bucket we are.

Trends are matching other developed countries.

Besides SK will gain 27 million Koreans should the Norks spazz and collapse.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:

Young Korean women don't want a Korean mother-in-law.


Bingo!
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2% Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
bassexpander wrote:
Something needs to be done quickly, or full-blooded Koreans might find themselves in the minority within 50 years.


Oh come on...how is 1-2% of the population suddenly going to become +50% in 50 years.

I swear some people can't grasp how small of a drop in the bucket we are.

Trends are matching other developed countries.

Besides SK will gain 27 million Koreans should the Norks spazz and collapse.


It's not about "us" (if by "us" you mean westerners). Western people are indeed a drop in the bucket in Korea.

It's about the imported wives from poor SE Asian countries who come here to marry rural Korean men, and then they have half-Korean kids. This phenomenon is so commonplace that something like half of the kids born in rural Korea these days are half-Korean/half-(Filipino/Viet/etc.)
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Xuanzang



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean birthrate continues to drop. Divorces surge 58.2% Reply with quote

redaxe wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
bassexpander wrote:
Something needs to be done quickly, or full-blooded Koreans might find themselves in the minority within 50 years.


Oh come on...how is 1-2% of the population suddenly going to become +50% in 50 years.

I swear some people can't grasp how small of a drop in the bucket we are.

Trends are matching other developed countries.

Besides SK will gain 27 million Koreans should the Norks spazz and collapse.


It's not about "us" (if by "us" you mean westerners). Western people are indeed a drop in the bucket in Korea.

It's about the imported wives from poor SE Asian countries who come here to marry rural Korean men, and then they have half-Korean kids. This phenomenon is so commonplace that something like half of the kids born in rural Korea these days are half-Korean/half-(Filipino/Viet/etc.)


Something that will be conveniently swept under the rug
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The Goalie



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but does it matter if "full-blooded Koreans" are in the minority? Mixing up the gene pool can only lead to more vigorous offspring.

They're usually better looking, too.
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WavFunc



Joined: 23 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing is that despite the fact that a lot of these problems can be directly connected to the absurdly long work hours Koreans endure, the only thing I can see happening in Korea's future is even longer work hours.

A year or two ago, 이명박 was talking about reinstating the six day work week. If anything, in the next decade or so, Koreans will actually be working longer than they are now (and still accomplishing less). Its what they keep asking for.

I think adjumma and adjosshi who have retired think the current generation is lazy for only working/studying 50-60 hours a week.
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