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rt
Joined: 27 May 2009
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 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis? |
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My USQ (Australia) MA in applied linguistics required a one semester teaching practicum at the end of the 8 required courses(this was back in the late 1990's). I had already been teaching ESL of for 5 years at that time, so it wasn't really a problem.
A thesis option was available as well, but it wasn't required, as many people have no interest in/use for academic research.
Has this practicum requirement changed? I think it would be very beneficial (perhaps even necessary) for someone with no teaching/professional development experience. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| rt wrote: |
My USQ (Australia) MA in applied linguistics required a one semester teaching practicum at the end of the 8 required courses(this was back in the late 1990's). I had already been teaching ESL of for 5 years at that time, so it wasn't really a problem.
A thesis option was available as well, but it wasn't required, as many people have no interest in/use for academic research.
Has this practicum requirement changed? I think it would be very beneficial (perhaps even necessary) for someone with no teaching/professional development experience. |
I wrote a dissertation for my MA in linguistics. Standard stuff: research+75 pages. |
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Hank the Iconoclast
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to write a disseration for my MA in TEFL/TESL from Uni. Birmingham. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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My degree requires either an action research project or thesis, depending on what track you take or what you plan to do with the MA. They are equally as difficult. Coursework is approximately 1 1/2 years FT (about 11 classes), plus the thesis or research project. It's not the easiest program out there, and it's not the hardest. Mid-level big 12 conference US university. Put your time in, finish the work, and it's not too bad. I've learned a lot, but wish there were more human interaction. I'm going PT, so it'll be just under 3 years total for me.
| rt wrote: |
| My USQ (Australia) MA in applied linguistics required a one semester teaching practicum at the end of the 8 required courses |
How long does it take to complete the 8 required courses at USQ? I've heard under 8 months.
And no thesis or project required there? Wow... get your MA in no time with no thesis required.....? Seems like a big red flag to me.
What do these people do when the school hiring them asks to see their thesis/research project? Not that my current workplace is a high-level school, but if they are interviewing you for a job and ask you about your thesis (and they do), and you respond that your MA doesn't require one, they'll probably hire someone else.
Sort of off topic, but we had a guy who was working here, and made the honest mistake of mentioning that he never graduated from high school, but went back and got his GED. It ended up being his undoing. From a Western perspective, we might say, "Good for you... you went back and got it done.. then went on to earn a higher education." The Korean staff just couldn't wrap their head around it, and let the guy go.
Last edited by bassexpander on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
How long does it take to complete the 8 required courses at USQ? I've heard under 8 months.
And no thesis or project required there? Wow... get your MA in no time with no thesis required.....? Seems like a big red flag to me. |
Coursework MAs in the Commonwealth are between a year and and a year and a half in length. Many US universities also offer one year coursework MAs - Central Washington University: MA English - TESOL for example.
The USQ MA in AL is a two semester program and takes about a year to complete if it is done full-time and if one does not complete a thesis (or eight months if one doesn't factor in semester breaks and other holidays). With the thesis option the MA takes between a year and a half and two years.
Bass you need to learn the difference between professional MAs and academic MAs. A professional MA does not (usually) allow one to continue ones studies at the doctoral level, only academic MAs (research+diss) allows one to do that. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
Bass you need to learn the difference between professional MAs and academic MAs. A professional MA does not (usually) allow one to continue ones studies at the doctoral level, only academic MAs (research+diss) allows one to do that. |
I do know the difference.
In my mind, any so-called Masters Degree program that can be finished in a mere 8 months, minus a thesis, is sub-par semi-degree-mill level. If you went the longer route, then good on you -- you're fine. You actually have a thesis to show for it. I sure as heck wouldn't consider an 8 month wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am MA program with no thesis/project as meeting MA requirements for a position, however.
I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for.
It seems you've worked hard with a mind to continue your studies. You didn't take the easy way out. That's great. In the same breath, I'll say I'm sorry that your school has decided to offer a quick/easy route to others who aren't interested in putting forth the effort you have. That cheapens the name of your school, and must upset you. It sure would upset me if my school did that.
The lure of easy money for the school is apparently too difficult for some academic institutions to look past. |
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tired of LA
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Thiuda wrote: |
Bass you need to learn the difference between professional MAs and academic MAs. A professional MA does not (usually) allow one to continue ones studies at the doctoral level, only academic MAs (research+diss) allows one to do that. |
I do know the difference.
In my mind, any so-called Masters Degree program that can be finished in a mere 8 months, minus a thesis, is sub-par semi-degree-mill level. If you went the longer route, then good on you -- you're fine. You actually have a thesis to show for it. I sure as heck wouldn't consider an 8 month wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am MA program with no thesis/project as meeting MA requirements for a position, however.
I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for.
It seems you've worked hard with a mind to continue your studies. You didn't take the easy way out. That's great. In the same breath, I'll say I'm sorry that your school has decided to offer a quick/easy route to others who aren't interested in putting forth the effort you have. That cheapens the name of your school, and must upset you. It sure would upset me if my school did that.
The lure of easy money for the school is apparently too difficult for some academic institutions to look past. |
I'm sure you're much more qualified to determine whether a school is a degree mill than universities and academic accrediting organizations.  |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| tired of LA wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
| Thiuda wrote: |
Bass you need to learn the difference between professional MAs and academic MAs. A professional MA does not (usually) allow one to continue ones studies at the doctoral level, only academic MAs (research+diss) allows one to do that. |
I do know the difference.
In my mind, any so-called Masters Degree program that can be finished in a mere 8 months, minus a thesis, is sub-par semi-degree-mill level. If you went the longer route, then good on you -- you're fine. You actually have a thesis to show for it. I sure as heck wouldn't consider an 8 month wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am MA program with no thesis/project as meeting MA requirements for a position, however.
I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for.
It seems you've worked hard with a mind to continue your studies. You didn't take the easy way out. That's great. In the same breath, I'll say I'm sorry that your school has decided to offer a quick/easy route to others who aren't interested in putting forth the effort you have. That cheapens the name of your school, and must upset you. It sure would upset me if my school did that.
The lure of easy money for the school is apparently too difficult for some academic institutions to look past. |
I'm sure you're much more qualified to determine whether a school is a degree mill than universities and academic accrediting organizations. |
Seriously... it's common sense. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| In my mind, any so-called Masters Degree program that can be finished in a mere 8 months, minus a thesis, is sub-par semi-degree-mill level. If you went the longer route, then good on you -- you're fine. You actually have a thesis to show for it. I sure as heck wouldn't consider an 8 month wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am MA program with no thesis/project as meeting MA requirements for a position, however. |
They are meeting the requirements for a coursework MA by completing the coursework. They are not completing the requirements for a research MA. There is a significant difference between the two.
| bassexpander wrote: |
| I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for. |
MAs from nations other than the US are not sub-par. Such a comment is arrogant and unfounded in reality.
I agree that universities should be made aware of the differences between coursework MAs and MAs by research. When it comes to hiring universities can then be more selective as to what type of MA they feel best prepares a teacher to teach at their institution. My personal experience has been that universities prefer hiring individuals who have completed a dissertation as part of their MA.
| bassexpander wrote: |
| []I'm sorry that your school has decided to offer a quick/easy route to others who aren't interested in putting forth the effort you have. |
My school offers coursework MAs and MAs by research. Two types of degree for two different purposes. Your comments bespeak a total ignorance of educational systems outside of the US. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
| In my mind, any so-called Masters Degree program that can be finished in a mere 8 months, minus a thesis, is sub-par semi-degree-mill level. If you went the longer route, then good on you -- you're fine. You actually have a thesis to show for it. I sure as heck wouldn't consider an 8 month wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am MA program with no thesis/project as meeting MA requirements for a position, however. |
They are meeting the requirements for a coursework MA by completing the coursework. They are not completing the requirements for a research MA. There is a significant difference between the two.
| bassexpander wrote: |
| I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for. |
MAs from nations other than the US are not sub-par. Such a comment is arrogant and unfounded in reality.
I agree that universities should be made aware of the differences between coursework MAs and MAs by research. When it comes to hiring universities can then be more selective as to what type of MA they feel best prepares a teacher to teach at their institution. My personal experience has been that universities prefer hiring individuals who have completed a dissertation as part of their MA.
| bassexpander wrote: |
| []I'm sorry that your school has decided to offer a quick/easy route to others who aren't interested in putting forth the effort you have. |
My school offers coursework MAs and MAs by research. Two types of degree for two different purposes. Your comments bespeak a total ignorance of educational systems outside of the US. |
Try to change the argument into whatever you want, Thuida. You're just putting words in my mouth to avoid the truth:
An 8 month MA with no thesis/project is a joke.
What's even funnier are people from the USA who sign up for quickie other-country programs like this for the sole reason of finishing an MA as quickly and cheaply as possible just to reap the hiring benefits in Korea. They know their degree will be suspect back home, but they don't care, so long as it works in Korea.
Hopefully schools here will wise-up to this. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
Try to change the argument into whatever you want, Thuida. You're just putting words in my mouth to avoid the truth:
An 8 month MA with no thesis/project is a joke.
What's even funnier are people from the USA who sign up for quickie other-country programs like this for the sole reason of finishing an MA as quickly and cheaply as possible just to reap the hiring benefits in Korea. They know their degree will be suspect back home, but they don't care, so long as it works in Korea.
Hopefully schools here will wise-up to this. |
If you check the link that I provided in my first post in this thread, you'll notice that Central Washington University too offers a one-year coursework MA with no thesis component. If you subtract summer and winter holidays from actual studying time, their one-year MA also becomes an eight month MA. Do the math.
You're right, universities looking to hire instructors do need to know the difference between coursework MAs and MAs by research, but a coursework MA is still better than no MA at all.
Coursework MAs on offer by UNE and USQ are accredited by the US DETC and fully recognized in the US. Why shouldn't people from the US sign up for these programs? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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Thuida:
| bassexpander wrote: |
I don't care if the program is in Australia, the UK, the USA, or wherever. Lines must be drawn somewhere. As the market becomes flooded with these sub-par MA's from down under, or wherever, I sincerely hope the Korean educational powers come to realize that some of these MA's are a joke. They should hire with this in mind, and know what schools to look out for. |
Do you even read what I post?
Please see the above quote, and quit attempting to put words into my mouth, or claim that I'm saying this about all British-based MA's.
I don't care where the university is.... Australia, USA, UK, Korea... An 8 month, no thesis MA is a joke.
Just because you dug up some worthless MA from the USA does not add any more credibility to another worthless MA.
And "fully recognized" by who/what? Recognized as an MA from Australia, maybe. It would be totally up to the school, most likely (and if you only finished an 8 month MA, then good luck). A US school would likely look at an Oxford or Birmingham degree and say, "Come on in!" But USQ? Good luck.
Do you see USQ here?
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.aspx
Here?:
http://www.rbs2.com/accred.htm
For an institution to be recognized in the USA, it would have to be accredited by the proper national or regional government body. Otherwise, it's entirely up to the school you are attending or place you're working as to whether or not your degree will be accepted.
Good luck on that.
In any case, I'm sure this thread will be deleted. Demo wondered why it's hard to find past threads where this has been discussed at length -- they're deleted -- just like yesterday's thread was. Whether that's because the institution advertises here, or certain empowered individuals with thread-pulling ability have degrees from these places is anyone's guess. Or, perhaps, because people with sub-par degrees from a certain institution see a thread like this and attempt to get it pulled by violating TOS. Then they can say, "Show me where anyone has spoken badly of my school!" |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: did your MA in linguistics require a practicum or thesis |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
I don't care where the university is.... Australia, USA, UK, Korea... An 8 month, no thesis MA is a joke.
Just because you dug up some worthless MA from the USA does not add any more credibility to another worthless MA.
And "fully recognized" by who/what? Recognized as an MA from Australia, maybe. It's not going to be recognized as anything useful without the thesis component, and proper USA accred.. It would be totally up to the school, most likely (and if you only finished an 8 month MA, then good luck). A US school would likely look at an Oxford or Birmingham degree and say, "Come on in!" But USQ? Good luck.
Do you see USQ here?
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.aspx
Here?:
http://www.rbs2.com/accred.htm |
Why are USQ and UNE not mentioned on a list of accredited American universities? Because they're Australian. However, both of these universities are accredited through The Distance Education and Training Council and therefore through the Council of Higher Education and the US Department of Education. See UNE gains US distance education accreditation for info on UNE and USQ.
Bass, you really need to start reading the links that you post as evidence for your views. In the link you provided to the article Accreditation of Universities in the USA it defines the academic requirements for Masters degrees at US universities as:
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A total of at least 30 semester hours of credit beyond the bachelor's degree must be earned in classes at accredited universities. At least 24 semester hours was in classes, of which at least half must be at the graduate level.
Traditionally, a candidate for a master's degree was required to complete a master's thesis, which was an original scholarly work. The candidate was required to defend the thesis before a meeting of the candidate's advisory committee, which other professors were welcome to attend. The student was given 6 semester hours of credit for a successful thesis.
Beginning in the late 1960s, universities in the USA began to [] allow[] students to take an extra six semester hours of classes instead of doing a master's thesis.
A Master's degree typically required one year of full-time study or two years of study while also doing teaching or research on campus (i.e., a half-time teaching or research assistant). |
How are the MAs described in the above quote any different from professional MAs offered by Australian/Commonwealth universities? |
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rt
Joined: 27 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Some people have inferiority/inadequacy issues and find it helpful to trash/dis others whom they deem unworthy/inferior. This is a quite common, if not almost universal human characteristic.
Having said that, my USQ MA has proven quite useful over the years: I currently teach 10 hours per week for 3.6 million per month, with new housing and 5 months paid vacation. The job would not have been possible without the degree.
It was a two year + program when I took it (2 courses each semester), and required either a one semester practicum or thesis afterward, which I saw as a plus, as not everyone who does an MA wants to teach, nor do they all want to do just research.
It could be completed in one academic year, on a full time basis (as most, if not all American MA's can be), plus the aforementioned practicum or thesis afterwards.
I already had a doctorate (not a distance type degree) in another field and I can honestly say that the distance MA coursework from USQ was just as difficult , if not more so, than the doctorate coursework.
Come down off your high horse; it's too bad we all couldn't all go to Harvard, and work in some truly nice country, eh? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Thuida:
Please feel free to read the DETC link you quoted, which says what I said:
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DETC is a national accreditor and should not be confused with regional accreditation. The vast majority of all schools in the United States are regionally accredited from elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, and higher education institutions. Some regionally accredited schools accept and recognize the accreditations of nationally accredited schools, but others do not. |
The hilarious point is that BOTH of you guys admit putting far more time into your program when you did it, yet you have no problem with what is being sold as an MA by your school now:
Full MA with just 8 months of coursework an no thesis/project. How can this not be a red flag to you? Moreover, how can you not be disgusted with your school for cheapening the perceived value of your MA?
And rt, if you would read what I've posted, it would be quite obvious that I am not on a "high horse." I've been rather humble in regards to my program.
Last edited by bassexpander on Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:40 am; edited 3 times in total |
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