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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: Why the military is screwed up |
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I mentioned in another discussion how the so called "professional" army of America is now filled with ill suited recruits/soldiers. A mess.
This is a rot that infects the military and leads to all kinds of unecessary death and destruction. From Abu Graib to Hasan.
They're new recruitment tool (let's just call it like the old Communist philosophy - "Get 'em young", is just one more example. Disgusting.
Shopping Mall Fun and Games Recruiting
DD
http://projectpeace.ning.com |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Why the military is screwed up |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
I mentioned in another discussion how the so called "professional" army of America is now filled with ill suited recruits/soldiers. A mess.
This is a rot that infects the military and leads to all kinds of unecessary death and destruction. From Abu Graib to Hasan.
Their new recruitment tool (let's just call it like the old Communist philosophy - "Get 'em young", is just one more example. Disgusting.
Shopping Mall Fun and Games Recruiting
DD
http://projectpeace.ning.com |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| ...filled with ill[-]suited recruits/soldiers [my emphasis]. |
As I said in that thread, Ddeubel, I take your point. Wars and especially occupations wear armies down.
On the other hand, you overstate. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why the military is screwed up |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
They're new recruitment tool...
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Nice to know you're teaching English. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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As I said in that thread, Ddeubel, I take your point. Wars and especially occupations wear armies down.
On the other hand, you overstate. |
Well Gopher, if the truth is overstatement than I'll overstate.
A rose is a rose is a rose as once French pacifist said.
Their doing the wrong thing and I think people should scream about it. But yeah, go figure - now you can watch guys bash each other bloody on prime time television. Garbage in - garbage out.
DD
http://projectpeace.ning.com |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Video games? That's so crazy. Unreal.
In the 1980s, when Afghan boys were fighting in combat against the Soviets in the driving snow far from their house, I was at home, sitting in front of the fireplace, playing Combat on the Atari with Mommy bringing me cookies and hot chocolate. Gee, why do I feel too spoiled and soft to take them on? 
Last edited by Reggie on Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tefain
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Location: Not too far out there
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Why the military is screwed up |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
They're new recruitment tool...
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Nice to know you're teaching English. |
I'm usually not fond of the Grammar Gestapo, but that was funny. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Their doing the wrong thing |
I have a really good lesson plan on "there," "they're," and "their." PM me. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Well Gopher, if the truth is overstatement than I'll overstate. |
You recognize the problem. But you betray a complete unfamiliarity with the armed forces as a whole -- which is not in as bad shape as you want others here to believe.
This undermines your credibility on this issue with those of us who know better. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| ddeubel wrote: |
| Their doing the wrong thing |
I have a really good lesson plan on "there," "they're," and "their." PM me. |
Send it over. I could use something productive from all the time I spend here. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| We may have spent a gazillion dollars on our military over the past 50 years, but we do have a win in Grenada to show for it. So, I don't want to hear anyone complain. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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You recognize the problem. But you betray a complete unfamiliarity with the armed forces as a whole -- which is not in as bad shape as you want others here to believe.
This undermines your credibility on this issue with those of us who know better. |
Well Gopher, I won't pretend to be a military expert. However, I do have many friends in the military and even those as high ranking as a Major who also off the record vouches for how bad it is. I don't judge people - I judge ideas (organizations, abstractions, ideologies, beliefs etc....)
Of course, on the record it is all "Army strong" blablabla....
But you got to think twice with all these bases over so many continents. When the military spends , spends , spends on its "brand" - the darling of Hollywood and glitter. (but that's another subject).
You gotta wonder when the military takes from the lowest echelons and has become a clearinghouse for rascals and those which society offers little "outs" and those who'd like the money and adventure but not any commitment to ideals.
You got to shake your head at how it recruits. You got to wonder about a system that preys on the weak and vulnerable and then spits them out - who cares about the vets? Who cares afterwards? Let's just keep fillin 'er up with the young blood.
I'm not saying anything new, nothing that even Ron Kovic wouldn't have said...but it has to be said. Stinks.
America should withdraw. The military should cut its budget by 75%. The military should hire competent and professional people, dedicated to a career and life in the military and not the pay cheque at the end.
I agree, lots about society plays into this. But the military in Can. / US. is based upon violence, guns, force and power. A job that becomes a nightmare for many. A paradigm which offers little hope for that which it mouths - democracy and peace.
DD
http://projectpeace.ning.com
PS. Those with they're comments - the jokes on you. And for the record, I don't teach English these days, not that it isn't a great profession. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
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I think you lose focus and cite too many, sometimes unrelated, issues, above. It is as if you were searching for a pretext to justify an open-ended rant against "the [American] military."
The wars and the occupation have shaken and damaged the military; we need to restructure, rebuild, resupply, and retrain it. The military, mostly the Army and not the other branches, has lowered its enlistment standards, including expanding the age limits, and it also grants waivers in some cases for things it did not grant waivers for before the wars and the occupation.
But I am not sure that is an entirely bad idea per se. Contrary to the shrill allegations coming from people who know nothing about the matter, the Army is not granting waivers to child molesters, drug dealers, and mass murderers but rather people who experimented with drugs or got drunk and stole a car one night, etc. Not the dregs of society you allude to, Ddeubel. And we are talking about a small percentage of the whole at best.
Further, what is so wrong with finally granting people who have made mistakes and paid for them the opportunity to earn full inclusion in society again? Why punish these people, some of them ex-felons, forever via exclusion from, say, military service?
And if 17-20-year-olds, the armed forces' primary recruiting targets, identify with video games, why not use video means to reach them? Sounds smart to me. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I know a lot of people that got "straightened" out by the military. I'm talking about people who did jack crap, did drugs, and were on the road to being in prison.
Then they enlisted and all of a sudden a complete 180. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Further, what is so wrong with finally granting people who have made mistakes and paid for them the opportunity to earn full inclusion in society again? Why punish these people, some of them ex-felons, forever via exclusion from, say, military service?
And if 17-20-year-olds, the armed forces' primary recruiting targets, identify with video games, why not use video means to reach them? Sounds smart to me. |
I think there is a big problem. The core of the matter is motivation. A large number go into the army for $$$$$. That's a big problem. As I've said before, it is a form of prostitution. The govt waves massive , MASSIVE amounts of money at young people. I just shake my head at the money, easy money being made by those who'd raise their hand and say they'd learn how to shoot and kill. (I'm not talking basic salary, that's a pittance, I'm talking all the extras, hiring bonuses, travel etc...) It is a way out when under stress and can't turn anywhere else. This is the hiring criteria and if I were running a company that put guns and power beyond belief into people's hands -- I wouldn't be running things that way - least of all if I were "the man".
And it isn't just about letting those with a criminal record get in. It is about standards. However, how can a 16 year old know %$%#? And why should it be the military to babysit and brainwash? Just like religion, it should back off and allow them to mature enough to make the decision sanely. It is sick how recruiters gain access to H.Ss and colleges, sick. Can't call it anything else and still believe in creating a better life for people on this planet.
Second, it isn't a game. And I guess that is where we really part in our viewpoint. Killing, maiming, destroying - the power of life/death should be respected. Not just when one's guys get killed and we go into "sacred" overload. Always. The military doesn't respect life anymore, in its spirit. Thus, its recruitment methods. Get numbers, not good men. Get numbers and cross your fingers. Not a great strategy.
You are right, I'm mixing lots of things. Lots of what's wrong with the military has to do with what's wrong with society these days. Quick buck, spend, spend, look after yourself first, things should be easy, tittilation and stimulation not "do the right thing" anon and anon....
What if the goal really were "peace" and not "kick their ass". I think the strategy and recruitment would be much, much different....
DD
http://projectpeace.ning.com |
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