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Olivencia
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:49 pm Post subject: Vocabulary question...do these statements contradict? |
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1. The lexicons are mere translation books - other than that they serve no other function.
2. Lexicons define words and give translations.
I have one guy who says that they contradict in that the lexicons not only give translations but they also define the word (#1 and #2 directly contraict one another) but his opponent insists that there is no contradiction above in that defining a word is part of the process of translating it.
Your thoughts? |
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teacherinseoul
Joined: 18 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:57 am Post subject: |
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The statements contradict.
In common usage, "define" is broader than "translate."
Thus, if 2 is true, then 1 is not true. |
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shcforward
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: |
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I would actually say they don't contradict, but not for the reason stated.
The reason I think they don't contradict is the word "The" in statement 1. (The lexicons are mere translation books).
If "the" in that statement means something like "those certain lexicons over there," then it is plausible that those particular books only contain translations, while in general (statement #2) lexicons can contain definitions as well as translations.
In short, the word "the" might mean "those," in which case the statements don't contradict.
Let me provide an example.
1. The students are playing baseball.
2. Students sit inside a classroom and learn.
Both statements can be true without contradicting each other. Statement 2 states the necessary condition to be a student, but statement one talks about the actions of people who already filled that necessary condition.
If you take out the word "the," in statement 1, then it is different.
Definitions and translations are not the same. A definition implies an explanation of a word in the same language as the word, and a translation implies an explanation fo the word in a separate language. |
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The Goalie
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| shcforward wrote: |
I would actually say they don't contradict, but not for the reason stated.
The reason I think they don't contradict is the word "The" in statement 1. (The lexicons are mere translation books).
If "the" in that statement means something like "those certain lexicons over there," then it is plausible that those particular books only contain translations, while in general (statement #2) lexicons can contain definitions as well as translations.
In short, the word "the" might mean "those," in which case the statements don't contradict.
Let me provide an example.
1. The students are playing baseball.
2. Students sit inside a classroom and learn.
Both statements can be true without contradicting each other. Statement 2 states the necessary condition to be a student, but statement one talks about the actions of people who already filled that necessary condition.
If you take out the word "the," in statement 1, then it is different.
Definitions and translations are not the same. A definition implies an explanation of a word in the same language as the word, and a translation implies an explanation fo the word in a separate language. |
Hmmm... interesting (really!). First of all, though, I don't think a translation implies an explanation, but rather an equivalent in another language. Second, "The lexicons..." seems sufficiently vague (or whole) in this context as to be virtually synonymous with "Lexicons...". "The lexicons", without a reference such as "over there", simply means "lexicons", whereas "those" lexicons, like you said, would refer to a specific selection of lexicons, the ones on the table for example. |
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shcforward
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| The Goalie wrote: |
Hmmm... interesting (really!). First of all, though, I don't think a translation implies an explanation, but rather an equivalent in another language. Second, "The lexicons..." seems sufficiently vague (or whole) in this context as to be virtually synonymous with "Lexicons...". "The lexicons", without a reference such as "over there", simply means "lexicons", whereas "those" lexicons, like you said, would refer to a specific selection of lexicons, the ones on the table for example. |
I should have used a more specific word than "explanation" for translation, you are right.
I just don't know that "The lexicons" (with no specific reference) should by synonymous with "Lexicons."
Does "The books are red" mean the same thing as "Books are red?"
The dictionaries are big. / Dictionaries are big.
The steak is good. / Steak is good.
But maybe that is just how I interpret the word "the." |
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The Goalie
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Location: Chungcheongnamdo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| shcforward wrote: |
| The Goalie wrote: |
Hmmm... interesting (really!). First of all, though, I don't think a translation implies an explanation, but rather an equivalent in another language. Second, "The lexicons..." seems sufficiently vague (or whole) in this context as to be virtually synonymous with "Lexicons...". "The lexicons", without a reference such as "over there", simply means "lexicons", whereas "those" lexicons, like you said, would refer to a specific selection of lexicons, the ones on the table for example. |
I should have used a more specific word than "explanation" for translation, you are right.
I just don't know that "The lexicons" (with no specific reference) should by synonymous with "Lexicons."
Does "The books are red" mean the same thing as "Books are red?"
The dictionaries are big. / Dictionaries are big.
The steak is good. / Steak is good.
But maybe that is just how I interpret the word "the." |
Yeah, I know what you're saying-I just can't see a situation where "The lexicons..." is being used in the way the "The books are red." is. I think the problem lies in the example... it's just not natural. |
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