Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kalbitang]

One thing I absolutely despise is American-style suburban sprawl -- the type where you have to have a car to get anywhere, the streets are built for cars, not pedestrians, and where walking from one neighborhood to another is just one long, soul-sucking drag. Basically, the way most of the U.S. is designed...which is why I no longer live in the US.

What I like about Seoul is, that despite the excessive artificial buildings, neon lights, and congestion, the streets are alive; pedestrian-friendly 'golmoks' abound off the main roads; and the neighborhoods all blend from one to another allowing one to walk and sight-see all day long.

It seemed to me that the beach neighborhoods of Busan were quite isolated from the rest of the city...divided by endless rows of apartment-building monstrosities as far as the eye could see. In other words, Busan...at least the beach front, seemed more like the US-style of urban design vs Seoul.

Does this seem about right or was I missing something?

[jvalmer]

I'm assuming your talking about Haeundae. This area was never a purposely designed suburban area. Haeundae used to be a small and very underdeveloped (I guess most of Korea was underdeveloped then) separate village until the mid-70's, when it was merged into Busan. Not sure how long Haeundae has been around, but my guess is at least a few hundred years.

[jvalmer]

Also, wanted to add, considering that Busan has about 4 million people living in an area of 750 square km, I'd hardly consider that sprawl.

[RufusW]

Well Haeundae is separated from the center of Busan by a 30 minute subway ride, the area around the beach isn't too interesting, lots of high rises. Gwangali is also separated from the city centre (Seomyeon) by a big hill, but once again a small subway ride. The surroundings aren't actually very built up, just standard Korean neighbourhoods. Nampodong, a shopping-ish district, is 30 minutes in the opposite direction. So yea, it's hard to walk around Busan and go seemlessly from one distinct district to another.

But because Busan is surrounded by hills and has a few dotted in the middle, the sprawl is cut up. You're always close to a good view. I can walk from Gwangali over the hill to Seomyeon in a couple of hours, it gives me nice views and kinda takes me out of the city.

[VanIslander]

Seoul's idea of suburbs is a bunch of concrete monstrosities crammed together next to farmer fields.
And it's advertised as an ideal.

[youtuber]

One thing I did notice about Busan was a definite lack of things I like to eat. A bunch of kimbopchungooks but nothing like what Seoul has to eat. Just walked around hungry like a zombie looking for food. It was hard even finding street vendors selling bbq.

[earthbound14]

It depends on how you measure sprawl or how you look at it.

Busan does not have the same high land prices that drive density in Seoul, as well as it is against the coast, so often people spread our along the coast. There are probably other issues at work that cause Busan to be the way it is.

Seoul is not without sprawl, although to most people it doesn't look that way. Seoul is one of the most densely populated cities on the planet (Korea one of the most densely populated countries, right up there with Bangladesh). The high value of land in Seoul itself causes it to be both more resilient to sprawl like many other large cities which have vibrant pedestrian life (such as NY or London) yet on the flip side this high price combined with the draw of the city creates it's own form of sprawl different from smaller secondary cities. Gyeonggi Province is itself a bedroom suburb of Seoul, a sprawling ugly mess of crammed in apartments and concrete.

Downtown Seoul might be vibrant, but Gyeonggi Province is one of the ugliest places in Korea while the area surrounding Busan is much nicer and not so full of urban blight (shite). Planners in Seoul have tried to stop sprawl by using the green belt. This didn't really work as planned and only pushed less planned development further into Gyeonggi Province. Some of it is nice, Anyang, Ilsan and even Guri are nice suburbs of Seoul. Alot of it has been rushed and poorly built. Suwon has had really bad planning and hasn't dealt with the number of people well, Ansan is a planning mess and some places only exist because they are on a subway line like Chonan (which is kind of strange) and now Chuncheon will be brought into connection with Seoul.

In some ways it's good, because they use the subway and the train more, but the subway and trains are not able to handle the huge amount of traffic, leading peole in the burbs to buy more cars leading to greater congestion in and around Seoul...try going anywhere on a long weekend...hell, not enough seats on the bus, not enough trains, bumper to bumper traffic. Once in Seoul, it's hard to get out, because of the heavy population surrounding it (choking it) and because the sprawl around Seoul itself is poorly planned in co-ordination with Seoul, there are too many cars for the roadway system, in general far too many people and a lack of communication between planning departments (leading to highways thay suddenly come to an end when one planning zone ends and another begins).

Korea really needs to look at a better regional planning scheme that supports places like Busan, Daejon, Gwanju, and Deagu more. As it is, they can't take advantage of the positive effects of development that Seoul has and thus do not have the same vibrance in urban areas while the surrounding areas of Seoul are choked with crap.

[kalbitang]

[earthbound14]

I don't think I would compare Seoul to Paris or Rome, but there are some areas that are interesting.

Actually Itaewon is pretty nice in some places, north of the road isn't bad.

Hongdae has some nice elements, Shinchon is OK. Gangnam isn't really old school, but there are some nice places...I like the coffee shops. Apgujeong is nice as well.

Other spots are up north next the Dobongsan. There are some nice restaurants and what not leading up to the trails on the mountain.

Some of the old markets are cool, but far more third world Asian than Euro. Dongdaemun, Namdaemun, Youngdeungpo market, the fish market east of Daebong station.

Insadong street and the area west of Gyungbokgeung (Palace) - actually some quaint streets and urban architecture here, some places connected with the Chongechon (but really in development... promises to be something in the future).

Actually my favourite place is Gyeongju. The only city in Korea that feels like Korea. Not really special in terms of modern urban areas, but cool place to walk around looking at old Korean homes and hitting up some nice restaurants...but most of Gyeongju is like the rest of Korea...grey. The nice parts are nice though.

There is also a place in Seoul where people live in old style Korean homes, but I can't remember the name off hand.

If you look on Google Earth you can find the old city center...is has been almost entirely absorbed in the modern mesh of the city, but if you look close you can find the remnants of the old wall that surrounded the city, within this area are still many temples, small palaces and old homes. it can be pretty fun just wondering around these areas...I prefer to take a bike or motorcycle to fill in the gaps.

Also, the Han has something like 80km of biking, blading, walking trails...not urban, but really cool for getting in some long rides while in the heart of one of the world's densest cities.

Other areas worth mentioning are some of the areas surruonding the various mountains within Seoul. Not as nice as Dobongsan, but there is still some nice development around many of them, very cool to be able to get some wicked mountain biking or hiking in in the middle of town.

Some of the bigger Unis also have some nice locations.

Ehwa Uni area is nice too.

And I forgot Myeong-dong. Not really my thing, but the ladies like shopping here. Nice pedestrian streets.

[kalbitang]

[Grantasmagoria]