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North Korea revalues currency, destroying personal savings
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TL



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: North Korea revalues currency, destroying personal savings Reply with quote

Quote:
TOKYO -- Chaos reportedly erupted in North Korea on Tuesday after the government of Kim Jong Il revalued the country's currency, sharply restricting the amount of old bills that could be traded for new and wiping out personal savings.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120101841_pf.html

What the heck is going on over there??? N. Korea trying to starve its citizens?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the currency move substantially cripples the operation of local markets in the North, the consequences could be severe for the millions who depend on them for food. U.N. officials have estimated that as much as half the calories consumed by North Koreans come from food bought in markets.

South Korean officials said last month that North Korea appears to be on the brink of another severe food crisis, with stocks of food likely to run short by March.



I keep thinking that sooner or later the people in NK are simply going to stop cooperating with the system and it will collapse.
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Reggie



Joined: 21 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully there's already an active barter system. Otherwise, a lot of farmers will sleep til noon instead of getting up at dawn and a lot of people will starve.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie wrote:
Hopefully there's already an active barter system. Otherwise, a lot of farmers will sleep til noon instead of getting up at dawn and a lot of people will starve.


Is this a joke post?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. My. What kind of evil government would steal virtually all of the purchasing power of her citizens like that?

Oh, yeah.
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Reggie



Joined: 21 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hater Depot wrote:
Reggie wrote:
Hopefully there's already an active barter system. Otherwise, a lot of farmers will sleep til noon instead of getting up at dawn and a lot of people will starve.


Is this a joke post?


Why would it be? These people selling food were already running the risk of being sent to the gulag. Now that their savings have been destroyed, is it really worth the effort or the risk anymore?

Now that the value of the currency has been destroyed and the confidence in the currency along with it, bartering is about the only option left for those who still want to trade and not get financially raped again.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chosun Ilbo has a short article that explains the situation.

"The biggest motivation behind North Korea's sudden currency reform Tuesday appears to be Kim Jong-il's intention to throttle the emerging free market, which appears to hamper a smooth succession of power to his son Kim Jong-un...But some experts say the aim is wealth redistribution, while others believe the reform is aimed at containing inflation, which has skyrocketed since North Korea introduced rudiments of a market economy in 2002..."There are numerous cases of wealthy North Koreans paying off government officials and evading government steps to control them," a South Korean government official said...In a recent bid to rein them in, the regime in January limited the types of goods people can sell in markets to only homegrown produce, meat (except beef) and clothing. Manufactured goods and imported products must theoretically be sold in state-run stores. The measure was tantamount to a closure of the street markets. But the orders were met with public outrage and failed..."After failing to shut down private markets in North Korea, currency reform was probably the only option left to neutralize the wealthy merchant class." Cho added the currency reform was aimed at restoring Kim's hold on power. He said that North Korea's new class of wealthy merchants are not the traditional elite and include many people who are not "ideal" communists and could become threats to the state...Sources in the North say business activity has come to a halt since Sunday and that the situation is chaotic. One source says there were only a few wealthy people during the previous currency reform, but this time, there are a lot of North Koreans who have grown wealthy over the past 10 years. Caught off guard by the currency reform, they are either distraught or enraged. There is even talk of a potential revolt."

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/12/02/2009120200656.html
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Oh. My. What kind of evil government would steal virtually all of the purchasing power of her citizens like that?

Oh, yeah.

Your graph is off. Purchasing power is down by over 98%:
Price of one ounce of gold in 1913 = $20.
The same ounce of gold in 2009 = $1200.
If you do the math, it is down 98.3%.

KJI just did it a little faster.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie wrote:
Hater Depot wrote:
Reggie wrote:
Hopefully there's already an active barter system. Otherwise, a lot of farmers will sleep til noon instead of getting up at dawn and a lot of people will starve.


Is this a joke post?


Why would it be? These people selling food were already running the risk of being sent to the gulag. Now that their savings have been destroyed, is it really worth the effort or the risk anymore?

Now that the value of the currency has been destroyed and the confidence in the currency along with it, bartering is about the only option left for those who still want to trade and not get financially raped again.


You're talking about NK as if it were even a somewhat normal country. Only the elites have had savings wiped out, and they got those savings by being corrupt, not by selling food. Everyone else had no savings and was already in so much danger of starvation that their behavior will not be affected.

NK farmers sleeping til noon, give me a break.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
mises wrote:
Oh. My. What kind of evil government would steal virtually all of the purchasing power of her citizens like that?

Oh, yeah.

Your graph is off. Purchasing power is down by over 98%:
Price of one ounce of gold in 1913 = $20.
The same ounce of gold in 2009 = $1200.
If you do the math, it is down 98.3%.

KJI just did it a little faster.


Its true, your laptop and DVD player would've been far cheaper in 1913.

Confused
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're saying technology advanced because the currency devalued? I suppose that is true to some extent, as the currency was devalued to pay for wars and many of the major game changing inventions have come after initial development from the American military.

That said, I'd rather live in a world where families are not leveraged to all hell, even if it means I have to give up my Blackberry.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
You're saying technology advanced because the currency devalued? I suppose that is true to some extent, as the currency was devalued to pay for wars and many of the major game changing inventions have come after initial development from the American military.

That said, I'd rather live in a world where families are not leveraged to all hell, even if it means I have to give up my Blackberry.


I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that you have to account for productivity gains (and the inventions underlying it) when you're measuring standard of living.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's true. I don't know if the currency was still worth what it was that the economy would be more or less productive. There would be a much smaller financial sector, so there would be more capital for production.

Anyways, I think I might have a thread somewhere where this econ talk is more appropriate. We can all agree that KJI is a complete nut.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
We can all agree that KJI is a complete nut.


I don't agree he's a complete nut. That's not out of any sympathy. Its just I can usually see the reasons he does the often twisted things he does.

Except for that damned hotel.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I read that they're busily completing the hotel now.. Maybe that's what they need the purchasing power for.

You're probably right that KJI is more complicated and rational. But he is nuts. His fixation with his height alone is nuts.
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