Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kuros]

This article is almost a year old (almost!) and thus may not be a current event. I welcome moderators to move it to off-topic if need be, but I think it fits current events fine (but please don't move it because I prefer it here).

Romanticizing the Poor

[Fox]

I agree with the article. In fact, this is the primary thing that keeps me from submitting to the siren's call of Libertarianism. The poor are poor for a reason, and it's not because they're savvy, prudent consumers. These people get ripped off constantly by the corporate world, and they need to be protected, at least to some extent.

[Rusty Shackleford]

[Fox]

[Sergio Stefanuto]

Some nice graphs here:

Ireland v Others:

Tax burden
Prosperity levels
Job creation
Public spending

And OECD (1960-96):

Public spending and wealth growth

Cut taxes, legalize drugs, and in the developing world get rid of restriction on imported capital and export opportunities. A great deal of the world's poor are in India and China. In the former, the poor couldn't be more unromanticized and wholesale changes in the way poverty is viewed are what's needed - and sadly the obscenities of religion stand in the way.

[ontheway]

Typical socialist tripe.


The poor are poor for many reasons:


1) They make bad choices. So, they choose to smoke, drink, gamble, and use drugs - it's their right to make these choices - but these things make them poor. It may be that they are less intelligent and less educated, but many low IQ people with little education have become millionaires by working hard, saving and avoiding bad choices.

It's not that being poor makes them make bad choices. It's the bad choices that make them poor.

If we are to live in free societies, then we must face the reality that some people will make bad choices and suffer poverty as a result.

Which brings up:

2) Governments encourage people to make bad choices by offering government programs to assist the poor.

Knowing that if you waste all your money on bad choices, you will be bailed out by the government. They will pay you welfare, unemployment, food assistance, aid for your children, increased aid if you have more children than you can afford, free health care if you are poor ... then you have an incentive to smoke, drink, gamble and use drugs because your big momma government nanny will take care of you.

3) Taxes on Income and Property have the most detrimental effect on the poor. Since the poor is paying high percentages of their income in taxes - Social Security plus medicare taxes, (and both the employee and employer shares are actually paid by the worker, like it or not) and property taxes which come out of after tax dollars and are included in rent, plus high sins taxes on the bad choice items (cigs and booze prices are mostly tax) means the government is discouraging these people who need to work the hardest and save the most, from working and saving at all.

And the lack of opportunity:

4) Over 800 jobs in the US, many of which are relatively easy and can learned in a few hours, require licenses to perform legally. These license laws were designed primarily to keep large numbers of people out, so as to keep prices and wages high.

This has a double effect on the poor. It denies them the opportunity to enter lucrative trades with higher wages and causes them to pay more for goods and services in the marketplace while earning lower wages.

5) Business regulation and insane laws:

With very stringent regulations and mazes of laws in place, it is even more difficult for the poor to open new businesses that would give them some hope of bettering themselves. So, they give up.

6) Minmum wage laws prevent the poor from working:

Those with the least skills need to be able to offer their services in a competitve marketplace. They need to be able to work for less, so they can earn some money, tax free, save, tax free, learn to earn more, and begin and build a career.

The government prevents the poor from getting a foothold in the labor market.

This is actually the purpose of the minimum wage. By pricing out the low skilled workers, those with higher skills are able to demand far higher wages as they cannot be replaced by multiples of lower wage earners since the employ of the competition has been made illegal by the minimum wage. The unions know this and have always supported higher minimum wages to keep the poor unemployed and benefit their senior members.

Socialist "intellectuals" are just too stupid to understand what is really happening.


7) Overtime laws prevent workers from earning more.

Many workers are willing to work more hours at their base wage, but because of required "time and a half" laws, they are not offered any overtime. Instead they must get another part time job.

This is especially horrible for those who have managed to develop some skill allowing them to earn a higher wage. A man, "Adam," who has worked up to say $20 per hour in his trade is not able to work extra hours because his employer cannot afford to pay the $30 required.

So, Adam has to take a second job. He may be prevented from working from a competitor and may not be able to find part time work in his trade as other employers want full time workers, so he takes a lower skilled job at $8 per hour.

The stupid OT laws, instead of helping Adam earn $30 per hour for his extra hours force him to work for $8 per hour. Instead of making $10 per hour more, the government forces him to work for $12 per hour less.

There are millions of Americans working lower paid second jobs because of the mandatory OT laws.

And, on top of it all, the government will charge him higher tax rates on his labor and savings.



This analysis can be continued through hundreds of steps and factors that show that, other than their own bad choices, something we cannot change, it's primarily the government that makes the poor poor.


Socialism is evil.

Socialism causes poverty, unemployment, pollution, poor education, low quality health care, lack of health care, inflation, recessions, depressions and war.

If we want to solve the world's social problems we must first abolish all forms of socialism.

[bucheon bum]

I think the article was pretty insightful. I especially found the part about micro-finance to be interesting. I think we can all agree on:

1. Laws preventing false advertising. This is obviously already the case in developed countries, but not in developing countries. Even you libertarian-types argue in favor of laws against fraud.

2. Deregulation is good. It seems a couple of you libertarians missed this part of the article.

Last month I worked at a warehouse, and carpooled with a few of the workers. They were making $10/hour. While that is ok in Ohio perhaps, that's practially nothing in the San Francisco area. All but 1 smoked. None of them ever made their own lunch, but bought it at the food truck that would come by. While it was pretty affordable, it was still more expensive than making your own lunch. They also bought all this crap during the one day company sale.

And who were the managers of the warehouse? A group of chinese-Americans who immigrated from HKG 20+ years ago. None of them smoked, and they always brought their lunch to work. 20 years ago they were in the same position as the those I carpooled with, but thanks to making good, sound decisions and working hard, they now lead relatively comfortable lives.

Long story short, I agree with ontheway's statement:

[mises]

[bucheon bum]

[Fox]

[Reggie]

In the 80s, 90s, and this decade, most of the poor in first world countries have been deginerates and fools. However, as this economic crisis grinds on and escalates, I really think there will be a lot of normal people thrown into poverty or born into poverty through no fault of their own.

[Tiger Beer]

[Tiger Beer]

[Kuros]

[bucheon bum]

I found most of the comments below the article to be pretty insightful, and on par with the article itself. Nice contrast to the comments one tends to find below news articles in newspapers and the like.