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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: Sartre or Obama: Who was right? |
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Way back in �64 the Nobel Prize for Literature was to go to Jean-Paul Sartre, but he turned it down on the grounds that �Jean-Paul Sartre� was a different animal than �Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Laureate�. I always thought he was being way too sensitive.
I�ve lately had to reconsider my position. For one example, if a person says, �I�m a Moslem/I�m a Christian�, are they compelled to accept every verse in the Koran/Bible? Is it reasonable to hold them to what you understand those terms to mean? There have always been posters here who would seem to answer that question, �Yes�. It�s my impression that the number of posters with that position is growing. From this view, Sartre was right to turn down his prize. It kind of reminds me of that old medieval view that you were criminally culpable for what you did in other people�s fevered dreams, but maybe the medievalists were right. Given the surge in anti-science attitude, this is not entirely beside the point.
I have to admit being blind-sided by the Right�s adoption of a French atheistic existential philosopher�s views. I never saw that one coming. (French! Atheist! Existential! Philosopher! Yikes!) One of Sartre�s central ideas is that our freedom is �negative� in that we are only free when we say �no�. I think you have to admit that that fits the current Right tighter than OJ�s glove.
This issue is relevant this week because Obama is off to Scandanavia to accept his Nobel. Maybe he should have followed Sartre�s example and refused it, thus keeping his right to define himself. By accepting it, won�t he be required to always and forever act in accordance with how other people define winners of the Peace Prize and be always open to accusations of hypocrisy? Or is that just cheap, cynical political nonsense? Before his Afghan speech last week I tried to imagine the reaction if he declared a withdrawal and what I came up with was blood in the streets with the Faux pundits screaming about European Socialists (Eek! Europeans! Socialists!) running our foreign policy.
In the end, I decided Sartre was free to say �no� to his prize and continue to define himself without the label, but Obama was free to accept his prize and continue to define himself without being guilty of what goes on in other people�s imaginations�and just accept that �hell is other people�.
PS#1: Sartre�s �The Road to Freedom� trilogy (The Age of Reason, The Reprieve, Troubled Sleep) is worth your time. When Isme deliberately rams that knife through her hand in the night club is a high point in lit.
PS#2: I don't know where Obama will go to accept the award, Oslo or Stockholm, but both Norway and Sweden have kings. Will Obama bow to whichever? How many days of poutrage will we have to suffer through this time? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:16 am Post subject: |
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I love Sartre's clarity as a writer of technical philosophy. However...
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PS#1: Sartre�s �The Road to Freedom� trilogy (The Age of Reason, The Reprieve, Troubled Sleep) is worth your time. When Isme deliberately rams that knife through her hand in the night club is a high point in lit.
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I read the Age Of Reason years ago, and didn't much care for it. What the heck was the deal with that gay guy drowning cats?
Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Well seeing how Obama is wrong as a general rule, and a proven liar... gotta go with Sartre. Sartre was just an intellectual, not a warmongering traitor, selling out his country to criminal bankers like Obama. Also, Sartre wouldn't have been a hypocrite even if he had accepted his award. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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What did Obama do to deserve the prize? Simple question. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008 Location: Marakesh
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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mises wrote: |
What did Obama do to deserve the prize? Simple question. |
I agree with this, and if I recall correctly, the committee said he was responsible for the change in attitude around the world, that feeling of optimism.
Anyway, he should have rejected it. How does it look, someone accepting the peace prize within the same week as sending 30,000 more people to war. How do you justify it to the world, "Yeah, I have this peace prize, but I'm still going to send Predator drones on assassination missions, I still command the most powerful military ever in missions that arguable contribute to both stability and instability around the globe."
I don't think he should have to justify anything to the world, he's not the worlds president, he's the American president, so when he tells me "Hey, sorry your brother was killed in war, but I got this peace prize here, so we can't take preemptive action anymore," what am I supposed to think?
Long story short, he's going to let the world down by following American policies or he's going to let America down by trading off our security (I mean this in the sense that he would NOT use the military as effectively as he would if he ignored the worlds wishes) for the worlds affection. By accepting the award he is going to walk the tightest line ever or be labeled a hypocrite. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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When he won it I felt embarrassed for him. I honestly didn't think he would have the balls and hubris to accept it. While I disagree with him on everything of importance, I didn't dislike him until he accepted it. |
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