Korean Job Discussion Forums

[steroidmaximus]

Korea has been the recipient of so much foreign aid? A less than thorough dip into historical material suffices to demonstrate that 'aid' has been traditionally one-sided, usually benefitting the elite and the donors in terms of business concessions etc. So much of the Korean economy was and still is controlled by foreign interests (primarily American and Japanese) you have to wonder why the Koreans haven't given the heave ho to all foreigners in general long ago. Let's not even get into how it was the US that created the artificial divide between North and South, and maintained it for decades by propping up regime after regime that had ties to Japanese colonial interests. All of this ignored the will of the mass of Koreans, and led to economic stagnation and corruption for years. It was only after pressure was put on the US to mend its foreign image after the Vietnam war (which Koreans fought in by the way, as paid mercenaries by the American govt, monies which benefitted the dictatorship at the time and not the people in general). Whenever I hear people on this board go on about how Koreans are ungrateful for everything the US has done for them, I get seriously steamed, since the US did everything it did solely to benefit economically, through straight out exploitation of the Korean people. Aid is a misnomer; do some research and clear your minds of your misguided perceptions.

[Bulsajo]

Sorry, dude, I'm not American but you managed to push my buttons anyway, so-

WARNING, RANT AHEAD

Yes, we get it. All aid is bad, foisted upon unsuspecting countries to further the aims of the imperial overlords.

I think you're confusing the motive with the results. So what if aid isn't purely altruistic? I don't hear any West Europeans b*tching about the Marshall plan!

Rant on:
Korea was one of the poorest countires in the world in 1953, now they're 13th in GDP. Sure, it was acheived through the sweat and toil of the Korean people, AND foreign aid, most of that American. Perhaps the US should have given the same kind of aid to SK as the USSR and China gave to NK? Would that make you happy? I'd be willing to bet that if you talked with folks from Burundi, Bolivia, or Bangladesh, you'd find that they'd give their eye-teeth to get the kind of aid Korea has gotten. I'd also be willing to bet if Korea still had the GDP that it had in the 50's and still competing with Haiti for the title of World's Poorest Country, YOU wouldn't be there, nor would you want to be. Rant off:

[Hank Scorpio]

Thanks, Bulsajo, you've kept me from needing to reply to an idiotic, "I just got out of university that my parents paid for, but I know everything" post.

[weatherman]

Where do you get the fact that the Japanese and Americans control the Korean economy? What are you sources? What are your numbers? Why don't you tell us more about your research? I would like to see some facts and not opinion. All I know and I don't know much, is that Korea is a leading country in automobiles, ships, computer chips, steel, and electronics. And for East Asia, cultural production too. Are you really angry at the capitalists in Korea getting a big piece of the pie? This happens everywhere, and I too wish the little guys would get a little more, but you rant is really out their. Again, tell us your sources and numbers.

[steroidmaximus]

just got out of university? like about 10 years ago lol

Maybe I should know better than to try and bring this kind of thing up, since of course most folks will just follow the same line: look at how great things are now!

You're side stepping the issues.

1. People complain that Koreans are ungrateful. I've heard this comment more times than I care to remember at the moment. The fact is, aid was first granted as a means to prop up regimes that oppressed Koreans and allowed foreign exploitation to occur. Koreans remember this, and having foreigners around all the time reminds them of this ugly side to their history. Why should they be 'grateful'? If it wasn't for policy decisions back in the late 40's, Korea might have been a rich country long before now.

2. Delving into economic indices for North Korea shows that Russian and Chinese 'aid' was with far less strings, and helped the north develop much faster than the south in the early years. It was only with the collapse of the Soviet Union that things in the north started to get really bad economically. Ideology aside, poverty in the north was eliminated far before it was even considered an issue in the south in the court of world opinion. Equality for women and less social stratification were evident in the north long before the south even discussed openly these issues. Again, ideology aside. Repression? well I think even an undergrad doing a bit of research at the library would know that the south's regimes have always had the worse record. The reasons for poverty in the north today of course rest again with keeping Korea a divided country, again originally an American policy which disregarded the wishes of the Korean people, who defacto mostly fought on the allied side of WWII. Their reward? once again becoming a Japanese colony and controlled mostly by Japanese business interests, something which is not easily forgotten.

My point was to question the stereotypes which surface on this board, mainly: Why are Koreans so ungrateful for everything we've done for them? I'm sure most Koreans wouldn't dispute that today they have a pretty decent standard of living, but the over all cost, and the memories that linger, is something most ignore when about to engage auto-rant.

[Imbroglio]

[Hank Scorpio]

[Zyzyfer]

Nah, Korea hasn't already launched itself into development at an amazing pace. They could go even faster! So fast that the next three generations will still be behind the times!

[Bulsajo]

[IconsFanatic]

[weatherman]

I really don't want Koreans to directly show they are grateful for all the west has done for their country. There are better ways, such as acting mature in international relations. Having institutions that are deserving of a first world country. Showing objective leadership in times of crises. Things like that would be proof enough for the world, but it has yet to happen, as I see it.

[IconsFanatic]

[steroidmaximus]

Firstly, I wasn't defending the North -vs- the South. I was mearly making a comparison between the economic history and social developments following the Korean war.

Secondly, most South Korean atrocities were never reported in the Western media; most of the stories focused on the brutality occuring in the north while ignoring the repression in the south. Only in the last decade has this sort of thing really started to come out. I wonder why this was?

Thirdly, (and here I'll probably be accused of defending the north again), it can not be verified which side actually started the war. Many western scholars claim it was the south. There is ample enough evidence to demonstrate that the south was engaged in far more 'sabre-rattling' than the north, what with an American presence to back them up. Remember, at the beginning of the war, there were no foreign troops in North Korea; but in the South, American forces remained despite UN resolutions to remove all foreign armies.

Fourth, after the end of WWII until the mid 70's, over 40% of Koreans living and studying in Japan chose to list their homeland as North Korea instead of South, primarily because of the South's horrible human rights record, it's willingness to act as a defacto colony of Japan, and it's appalling levels of poverty. This despite the obvious difficulties of associating themselves with a govt black listed by the Japanese. Of the remaining 60%, more than 25% lobbied unsuccesfully to have their home country named simply Korea, without North or South distinction.

In Canada, we complain and moan about Americans ( a national past time), their pollution destroying our forests and lakes, their media and culture presenting a biased view of the world, trying to buy up our water and natural resources. So what if our situation were more like Korea's? Our parents and grandparents having to work in sweatshops making low quality cheaps goods for mere pennies a day, while factories churned out thick black smog next to our homes, while Americans (or Japanese) had the benefit of clean homes and air, higher wages, and better food to eat? These are things I'm hoping people will think about before bemoaning how ungrateful Koreans are in general.

For the record, my uncle fought in the Korean war.

[Imbroglio]

So did mine. He lost his arm in on a freezing cold day just south of Kangwa-do. So did a lot of other Americans who fought for your right to bitch. Sometimes I wish that America had left the south to rot.

[Ya-ta Boy]

Thirdly, (and here I'll probably be accused of defending the north again), it can not be verified which side actually started the war. Many western scholars claim it was the south. [size=18]There is ample enough evidence to demonstrate that the south was engaged in far more 'sabre-rattling' than the north, [size=24]what with an American presence to back them up. Remember, at the beginning of the war, there were no foreign troops in North Korea; but in the South, American forces remained despite UN resolutions to remove all foreign armies.

Hmmmm...according to the sources I just looked at (The History of Korea by Han Woo-Keun; Introduction to Korean History and Culture by Andrew C. Nahm; MacArthur's War by Stanley Weintraub) there were Russian advisors in the North, but they had been ordered to stay back from the DMZ. American advisors, not knowing a war was coming, were also present in the South. The North had been supplied with artillery and tanks. The South is still ticked that the US forces took the big stuff when they left the summer before.