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quilter
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Anti English Spectrum story on CBC radio show The Current |
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I sometimes listen to The Current, a nationally broadcast radio program in Canada, and was surprised to hear this story about the current situation with the Anti English Spectrum site. Glad to hear it's getting some coverage outside Korea.
You can listen to the podcast in part two of this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/ |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:46 am Post subject: |
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It's getting even more publicity in Canada:
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2310206
Korea, if it doesn't start protecting the vast majority of foreign teachers who are law-abiding, is soon going to find egg on it's face on a global scale. |
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GwangjuParents
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:30 am Post subject: |
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You people realize that by making white, mostly middle class university graduates who make a salary in Korea in the area of the national average appear to be this down-trodden, oppressed group who live in constant fear...
You realize that all you're doing is trivializing the real victims of racism and xenophobia in the world ...
You're also making all westerners in Korea look like a bunch of morons... "human rights violations"... gimme a break... you're mostly transient, semi-skilled labor with no real connection to the country who can pick up and leave anytime you want.
The people who should be concerned about human rights abuses are the Koasians; unlike your typical ESL'er, they have to live here, and this is their country.
I personally think a lot of people really get off on the Anti English Spectrum; it gives their lives some extra edge that is otherwise missing.
Reality is 99 percent of Koreans could really care less about you. You're no threat to the order here. For most Koreans, you're just an amusing side distraction.
Koreans do not lose sleep at night over you, except for maybe a few in the loony fringe who probably lead equally empty, lonely lives.
Sorry to disappoint, but that's just the way it is. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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First of all, put yourself in the foreign teachers' shoes for a moment.
Imagine in any Western country a group of white guys get together and say 80% of the Koreans in their country have HIV. Most are illegal workers. Many are perverts.
Now, how far would that group get, do you think?
At the minimum, they would be hounded by the media and laughed at by the general public.
This anti-English group... think about it. Fringe or not, they are abusing and harrassing guests of their country.
A total of 22,905 foreign nationals are here on E-2 English teaching visas as of Oct. 31 this year, according to the Ministry of Justice. Of them, 134 overstayed their visa, the ministry said.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/12/117_56894.html
Less than 1% of foreigners in Korea have overstayed. Not Canadians. Not Americans or Kiwis or whatever. But all of them put together.
Try 100,000+ Koreans in Canada. not foreigners, but Koreans who overstayed in Canada.
Now look at it from the foreigner's point of view.
Fair?
Hardly.
They are invited...no BEGGED... to come to a new country that is strange to them by some Korean hagwon boss, then given such abuse?
And then you say foreigners are whining for nothing?
Would a Korean be a whiner too, if he was in Canada, and people openly said in English "Go home, pervert! Stop stealing our girls!"
Think! |
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GwangjuParents
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| First of all, put yourself in the foreign teachers' shoes for a moment. |
I don't know, those are some pretty big shoes to fill...
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Imagine in any Western country a group of white guys get together and say 80% of the Koreans in their country have HIV. Most are illegal workers. Many are perverts. |
Okay, I'm thinking the Klan, Congressman Robert Byrd, David Duke, Aryan Nations, my last family reunion, most of West Virgina and a large chunk of Alberta.. okay, sure they're not directed at Koreans per se because Koreans aren't on the radar, but as Asians and other visible minorities as a group.... well.....
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Now, how far would that group get, do you think? |
Historically, they've had some real pull. These days, probably not very much... but I still suspect Anti English Spectrum doesn't carry a fraction of the weight of some of the white power groups do in the US in terms of membership and organization and general appeal.
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| At the minimum, they would be hounded by the media and laughed at by the general public. |
These days, mostly yes, but Canada and the US have a real history of racism... racism I might add that had real consequences. For your typical ESL type, what are the consequences of the racism? Well, you can just go home if you feel you're being treated unfairly.
However, the African American down in Alabama can't just go back to Africa... America is were he was born. It's his home. You can't compare his situation to the ESL teacher.
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| This anti-English group... think about it. Fringe or not, they are abusing and harrassing guests of their country. |
So they have bad table manners. In a country of 50 million people, you're going to have some whack jobs. If people's skins are that thin, you shouldn't be working overseas in a foreign country. If you feel that the racism and injustice here is just too much, then go home. No one is forcing you to stay.
This is not your country.
You're just a visitor here.
Most ESL'ers are in Korea to serve as temporary labor only.
Korea didn't bring you over here to reform their society, and have you participate in a national dialogue on Korean domestic social policy.
The only reason you're here is because there aren't enough Koreans who can speak native level English to teach their kids.
You're here to fill a void, that's it.
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| They are invited...no BEGGED... to come to a new country that is strange to them by some Korean hagwon boss, then given such abuse? |
C'mon, no one forced you to come here. And if you don't like it, then leave. And the so-called "abuse" is just so grossly over-exaggerated as to defy credulity. See my earlier comment about "trivializing" the real victims of racism.
As as a white person in Korea, generally speaking I would argue that you're often treated better than the way Koreans treat other Koreans.
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| And then you say foreigners are whining for nothing? |
I would argue that Anti English Spectrum is nothing, and that to react to them is akin to reacting to the taunts of school children or trolls on Dave's Cafe. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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| Would a Korean be a whiner too, if he was in Canada, and people openly said in English "Go home, pervert! Stop stealing our girls!" |
If it happened everyday, yes.
However, I've lived in Korea for a reasonable length of time. I am more firmly established here than 99 percent of you.
Sure I'm sure there's the crank who might grumble something about me under his breath or behind my back, but 99 percent of the time I'm treated very well.
Honestly a lot of the foreigners here who complain about poor treatment bring it on themselves... |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: ... |
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Hi,
GwangjuParents?
Are you representing an organization, or are you just an individual poster here? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| GwangjuParents wrote: |
Okay, I'm thinking the Klan, Congressman Robert Byrd, David Duke, Aryan Nations, my last family reunion, most of West Virgina and a large chunk of Alberta.. okay, sure they're not directed at Koreans per se because Koreans aren't on the radar, but as Asians and other visible minorities as a group.... well..... |
Red herring. If the Klan started to march around in North America, they'd be at least chased off the street. That's if they didn't get beaten up by an angry mob first.
If a group of 20 white guys marched down Robson Street in downtown Vancouver and had signs proclaiming such things as "80% of Koreans have AIDS!" and "Protect Yourself from Koreans! Koreans go home!" they would maybe last 30 minutes. Tops.
Koreans marching down Myeongdong with "WAYGOOK SARAM GO HOME!" would be completely socially accepted.
You are talking about "historically", well it's 2009 now not 1959. Korea is a developed country now so they really have no excuse.
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This is not your country.
You're just a visitor here. |
No, when I was in Korea I was an invited guest. I had no intention of going to Korea. I prefered Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, or someplace else. I was offered the moon and the stars to go to Korea. I put out resumes galore for Japan or Taiwan and ended up with recruiters and schools practically begging me to go to Korea, extolling all the great virtues of a how a foreigner can enjoy himself in warm, welcoming Korea.
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| Honestly a lot of the foreigners here who complain about poor treatment bring it on themselves... |
Like the American beaten to death a few years ago on the subway near Incheon?
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| If you don't like it leave |
And I most certainly did, never to return. I find backwards China far more warm and welcoming. Japan and Taiwan are also far more welcoming and friendly.
Korean men who travel abroad have a nasty reputation, you do know that right? |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Like the American beaten to death a few years ago on the subway near Incheon? |
Are you referring to the 1995 incident where a US serviceman put his hand on his Korean wife's rear?
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| The Americans say the problems arose when some angry young Koreans on the subway accused the American of sexually harassing the Korean woman. When the Korean woman explained that she was the American's wife, the Korean men allegedly spat at her and slapped her -- leading the woman's husband to punch the man who slapped her. |
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2007/12/1995-subway-incident.html
Because I can find no archived reference to any american being "beaten to death". |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: |
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You are talking about "historically", well it's 2009 now not 1959. Korea is a developed country now so they really have no excuse.
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Here's something I've been wondering about. Are we supposed to fight against AES and its influence because...
A. It violates basic standards of fariness and decency, or...
B. ...because it makes life difficult for wayguks in Korea?
Because if it's the first complaint, I have to wonder why we are being asked to focus on that issue at this point in the game. Since my first year in Korea(2001), I've been well aware that a lot of stuff is accepted here that wouldn't fly in a more liberal country. I've long known about hagwons which openly discriminate against blacks and other non-whites when hiring native-speakers, laws banning mixed-race people from the military, pseudo-scientific doctrines of One Blood being taught as gospel in the public schools, etc etc. And I daresay there can't be too many long-time ESLers who aren't aware of these things. So, if our complaint is that Korea is failing to live up to the received principles of the French Enlightenment, well, that horse left the barn a long long time ago.
And if it's the second complaint, ie. Korean xenophobia is making our lives difficult in a tangible way, well, that's just a little bit hard to swallow. The worst complaint right now is that AES allegedly convinced the government to make E2ers take a discriminatory HIV test. This might violate, in a pretty abstract way, the principles enunciated in my last paragraph, but let's be honest. At the end of the day, it's ten minutes of your time, and a few man won out of your pocket. Even if the government makes every single Korean take the test, thus eliminating the discriminatory aspect, it's still gonna cost you money and put a slight dent in your leisure time. So this is pretty much a non-starter in terms of improving the quality-of-life of ESL teachers in Korea.
Personally, if I was gonna worry about anything, I'd worry about the Korean economy, and, to a lesser extent, the birth rate, both of which could have long-term impact on the viablity of ESL education in Korea, in both the private and the public realms. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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