Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Enrico Palazzo]

How do you think things could be more secure for other users?

It's hard to have a rating system unless someone has sold lots of things. People often sell things before they leave, or, they may try to cheat people before they leave. We don't know.


Some alleged fraud by a certain user. We don't know if it's true, but if several users state that, it's a concern.

Obviously, if you wire transfer money to someone you don't know instead of giving them cash in person for the goods, there is a risk. I have never wire transferred money to individuals for goods. I always met them. E-bay is a different story. I did get possibly defrauded buying some French rare coins. The guy claimed he sent me the coins. I am not sure that's true. I learned my lesson from that transaction. Thankfully, none of you lost 800,000 won or something of that magnitude.

[lifeinkorea]

I have lost more than a million won from cheating hagwons, but that's par for the course. Here, we live in Korea and can travel to other cities rather easily. Compare this to other countries.

I feel a strong responsibility is on the buyer to beware.

One thing could be done to prevent multiple victims (and discourage the act to begin with) would be to only allow one bank transfer on a product before another bank transfer could happen with a certain seller.

You make all deals default to a meet in person only arrangement. Dave's would have to enforce this. If there is going to be a purchase through a bank, you get details and ONLY allow that one item to be sold. After it is sold, you have history. Then, you allow for a second to be sold.

If you are leaving Korea, then either you should have thought of selling things earlier, or you simply have a sale at your place and only accept money in person.

Another option would be for Dave's to set up some kind of banking system. Instead of buyers putting money into the seller's account, they put it in an account run through Dave's. The seller won't get the money until it is delivered, and the buyer won't get it delivered until they make a payment. If Dave's secured accounts with KB, NH, Woori, etc... then people wouldn't have to pay an extra transaction fee if they don't use the same bank as the seller.

Dave's could collect a small percentage of each sale to finance this, and if people don't like it, well, they can gamble their money away and take their own risks.

I would be more inclined to buy stuff from Busan or Daegu with the second suggestion, if I knew money was only going to the seller when I received the item. Same as being a seller, I would be more inclined to ship items if I knew money was already sent before I shipped an item.

[tatertot]

I think the escrow idea is good, but probably too difficult to implement for a site like Dave's. The only way to be really secure is to meet in person. You can't get ripped off if you meet in person. Always inspect the item(s) thoroughly before you pay.

[hanguker]

I don't know if it's such a great idea, but what about providing copies of resident IDs (with the number blurred out/omitted).

This has all the information, period of stay, and address of the person and might keep people honest. That is, you could check for 'runners' by checking the period of stay. Also you could match up the ID with the name on the bank account.

In the end, if someone screws you, you know where to go knocking (or send the cops)

[SeoulnPepe]

Yeah...it's really buyer beware.

One idea: why not have people pay a fee to join the buy & sell part of ESL Cafe Korea. That way any disputes can be tracked down to actual people. Seller feedback should also be enabled on the forum, especially for people who have been here a while.

[Zach with a Z]

when you wire money, don't you have the sellers bank account info? Which has they're residence info, which has they're passport info et cetera?

is there nothing you can do with regards to all this info and the police?

I get asked to show my ARC any time I do anything at the bank... and privacy is a non issue here.. It seems, if this were like home.. you have all the tools to catch a thief...

[air76]

Even though I am one of the buyers who was ripped off recently, I don't think that it is Dave's responsibility to set up a system for the buy & sell forum. Dave's is just on online forum and not a paid service. So many people come and go from Korea and from Dave's, and 80% of the items for sale aren't repeat sellers but people leaving the country. Even if there was some sort of system I don't think that it would be successful.

There is risk buying or selling things on here, and that risk is generally rewarded with either selling things when we'd normally not be able to find a buyer or buying things at a huge discount compared to what we'd pay elsewhere, or being able to get products that aren't normally available in Korea.

Consequently, sometimes that risk pays off negatively. Overall, 95% of the transactions I have made on here have gone smoothly, so the money that I have saved/made by far overshadows the 30,000 won I just lost.

It sucks that this guy ripped so many of us off, but this will blow over and it will be back to business as usual here in a couple weeks. Which reminds me...I need to go to HomePlus to buy some of that tainted US Beef.

[nathanrutledge]

I don't think you can make this any more secure. This site is just a bulletin board. It's the same as a physical board in a common place that people post notes. Would you take a note off of a public board at the library that said "Send me money and I'll send this thing to you?"

Sure, there are plenty of names that people recognize, but the fact is the majority of the people here are faceless names. I know a grand total of 4 names on this board (but only 3 people, sock) and in a country as physically small as Korea is, if someone said they couldn't meet me halfway to buy/sell something, that would raise a flag right away.

We are all adults (although that's not always evident ) and should take responsibility for our actions. You get scammed because you didn't go there, that's tough luck. You scammed someone and ended up in a shallow grave, too bad so sad. You can't ask people to provide more information or set up some huge verification system. The majority of transactions here are small household items. Asking people to give more information for 10,000 rice cooker is only going to push people to another site.

At the same time, if someone is reported as being a thief, then the mods should take that seriously and address it immediately.

My two cents.

[Enrico Palazzo]

[mishlert]

Start a sticky for both sellers you can trust, and those to avoid.

[languistic]

All exchanges (cash for product) should be done face to face, or not at all.

[hanguker]

I would add:

4) Get a copy of their resident ID. I think it's important to check their "period of stay" status. I'm sure 99% of the scammers are cut and runners and ready to leave Korea. I'd say not to buy via post anything from anyone less than a month left in country.

[Destroyer]

Like Air said, despite being one of the guys who got ripped off recently, I am not going to stop buying stuff off this forum. I don't see it as a gamble, by and large we are a good community. I don't think it is a good idea to start policing it via ARC, period of stay, or whatever. Of course I'm bummed about this scam, but I'm not going to let this bad apple spoil it all.

One of the biggest mistakes we buyers made recently was to do the buying via email rather than on this open forum. A couple of us paid for the SAME ITEMS. If we had been more open about it that wouldn't have happened.

dkoryo's scam was very sophisticated. He had been an upstanding poster for a few years. He had sold items to other users. He participated in other discussions (albeit infrequently). He was very engaging via email; friendly and funny. A rating system cannot guard against people like dkoryo, it can only hurt those who do not participate regularly, and there are quite a few of those types here.

One thing the mods might be able to do to at least retroactively deter this sort of thing is save all changes users make to their accounts for a while. After dkoryo posted his ad he asked the mods to change his registered email address, I assume so that he could get all these suckers to buy stuff then delete the new address without losing his established email account. Hind sight is 20/20. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now it's suspiciousness.

A sticky for "rock solid" sellers is a decent idea. I've done enough videogame trading here to know who to trust, but others could be clued in, too. Sellers to avoid is pretty much moot. I'd imagine they all leave soon after they scam.

There is a degree of risk with any interpersonal transaction. Paying upfront puts the risk on the buyer. Paying on delivery puts the risk on the seller. Maybe meet half way? Half upfront, half on delivery? But why would a seller want to do that when another Joe will just pay all upfront...

Karma will sort out dkoryo. The rest of us need to take this as a lesson and stay positive. My reaction to this scam: my anger, fear, disappointment and obsessing have cost me far more than the money I lost. Checking my emails and this board every ten minutes for news from other victims or mods. Looking out the window for Taekbae trucks. Punching holes in the concrete walls of my apartment. Crying myself to sleep at night... it's been rough, but I'll survive and grow from this.

[cubanlord]

[cubanlord]