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The Times They Ain't a-Changin' All That Much

 
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: The Times They Ain't a-Changin' All That Much Reply with quote

Here are some quotes from days and issues gone by. They sound remarkably current, don't they?

http://www.tnr.com/article/womens-suffrage-and-other-visions-right-wing-apocalypse?page=0,0

�[The Act represents] a step in the direction of Communism, bolshevism, fascism, and Nazism.� �The National Association of Manufacturers, in 1938, condemning a national minimum wage and guaranteed overtime pay

�I fear it may end the progress of a great country and bring its people to the level of the average European. It will furnish delicious food and add great strength to the political demagogue. It will assist in driving worthy and courageous men from public life. It will discourage and defeat the American trait of thrift. It will go a long way toward destroying American initiative and courage.� �Senator Daniel O. Hastings (R-DE), in 1935, listing the evils of Social Security

My personal favorite: �[T]he child will become a very dominant factor in the household and might refuse perhaps to do chores before six a.m. or after seven p.m. or to perform any labor.� �Senator Weldon Heyburn (R-ID), in 1908, on why child labor should remain unregulated
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Rusty Shackleford



Joined: 08 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: The Times They Ain't a-Changin' All That Much Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Here are some quotes from days and issues gone by. They sound remarkably current, don't they?

http://www.tnr.com/article/womens-suffrage-and-other-visions-right-wing-apocalypse?page=0,0

�[The Act represents] a step in the direction of Communism, bolshevism, fascism, and Nazism.� �The National Association of Manufacturers, in 1938, condemning a national minimum wage and guaranteed overtime pay


Minimum wage laws destroy jobs. That is a fact. Whether it is bolshevism or not is hardly relevant.


Quote:

�I fear it may end the progress of a great country and bring its people to the level of the average European. It will furnish delicious food and add great strength to the political demagogue. It will assist in driving worthy and courageous men from public life. It will discourage and defeat the American trait of thrift. It will go a long way toward destroying American initiative and courage.� �Senator Daniel O. Hastings (R-DE), in 1935, listing the evils of Social Security


This is pretty much exactly what happened.

Quote:

My personal favorite: �[T]he child will become a very dominant factor in the household and might refuse perhaps to do chores before six a.m. or after seven p.m. or to perform any labor.� �Senator Weldon Heyburn (R-ID), in 1908, on why child labor should remain unregulated


Child labor laws had nothing to do with getting children out of the work force. I would say that by 1908 that was child labor would hardly have been a huge issue in any case.
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Sergio Stefanuto



Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas Sowell wrote:
The Roosevelt administration created huge numbers of government jobs during the 1930s � and yet unemployment remained in double digits throughout FDR's first two terms.

Constant government experiments with new bright ideas is another common feature of Obama's "change" and FDR's New Deal. Destroying some jobs while creating other jobs does not get you very far, except politically. But politically is what matters to politicians, even if their policies needlessly prolong a recession or depression.


http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell120809.php3
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to a minimum wage, I don't think there are many "exploited" German workers even though there is no minumum wage there. The country seems to have developed quite fine w/out one.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
In regards to a minimum wage, I don't think there are many "exploited" German workers even though there is no minumum wage there. The country seems to have developed quite fine w/out one.


But don't they have higher rates of unionization over there? I'm not an economist, and can't say precisely if there would be a connection between higher union numbers and adequate wages, but it's probably something that should be taken into account when analyzing their wage situation.

And if there IS such a connection, then Germany's situation is probably not one that would be much use to the FDR-bashing opponents of minuimum wage.
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thecount



Joined: 10 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was younger, I worked for as a YMCA as a counselor at a sleep-away camp (I think they call 'em "resident counselors" now).

The salary came to about $1 an hour for around +120 hours / week.

I believe that these camps may still be exempt from the minimum wage increase, I certainly hope so. It is difficult to be profitable. The increase may likely shut down camps, as they need a minimum number of counselors per campers and they would certainly not be taking *IN* any more money.

In common parlance, capital is like water, which is why we have all these phrases like "liquid assets" "cash flow," "frozen assets," etc.

But it is also like water in more than idiom:
One cannot see and increase in the water level or tide without seeing a reduction at some other shore. The fact that one cannot see or conceive of the other sure does not mean it is not happening. Similarly, it is impossible to raise the water level everywhere at once through a mere law stating the level must rise, which is, in essence what the minimum wage is. That which can be forced to rise to comply with the law will. The extra water required for this will be drained from other areas, which will disappear.

The only way to increase wealth for everyone is through innovation and private business. These are the elements that create the water. Everything else is just moving it.
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