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timolein23
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: Free airfare even if you are not flying home? |
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| So my contract expires in January and I have asked for a letter of release form so I can switch employers. I am probably not going to go back home between contracts. Can I still legally claim my return airfare when I complete my contract even though I wont be using it? |
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mongolian spot
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Not unless your director likes to give free money to the great unwashed |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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From your post, it's not clear whether you're actually completing your contract or not.
If you're not, then your boss owes you nothing.
If you are, and your contract doesn't say that your boss must give you the cash equivalent of airfare home, then your boss is required to buy you a plane ticket back to where you came from. If you don't want that ticket, then you should try to negotiate with your boss to get some cash. If he's reasonable, he'll see that giving you W600,000 that you'll actually use makes more sense than buying you a W1,000,000 ticket that you won't. But whatever you do, don't let him get away with not paying, just because you decided not to go home. If you've fulfilled your end of the bargain, he should fulfill his.
Next time, get "cash equivalent" written into your contract. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| But whatever you do, don't let him get away with not paying, just because you decided not to go home. If you've fulfilled your end of the bargain, he should fulfill his. |
The airfare money is for transportation, it's never agreed to that they will pay you for transportation not needed (if so, I want limo service money).
So, you don't get that money in the end. Even if you paid for the flight first and are reimbursed, you are at minus and then getting the money. You are never in the +. Either it is zero or -
If you got any money and didn't leave, then you got extra cash. This is NOWHERE stated in any contract I have ever seen. You can try though, but don't expect it and you will just make yourself look bad. It most likely won't work.
If you renew your contract with the same school, then I would say it is possible to negotiate a flight home and a flight back.
And if you do get a school willing to just hand out extra cash you don't need for transportation, at least ask yourself if you really want that or possibly more time off. Personally, I would try to negotiate more time off during the year. |
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timolein23
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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yeh I will have completed the contract. Im going on holiday to Bali so maybe they could pay for flights there and back.
it says in my contract party A agrees to buy a one way ticket for party B from south korea to his/her country.
Do most hagwons actually physically buy the ticket or just give you the money for it? |
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mongolian spot
Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Depends if you trust them. I would not trust most with a glass of beer |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
If you got any money and didn't leave, then you got extra cash. This is NOWHERE stated in any contract I have ever seen. You can try though, but don't expect it and you will just make yourself look bad. It most likely won't work. |
I've gotten this, and it was written into the contract. I did not have to negotiate for it. At the end of the year, my boss looked online, showed me a quote for the cheapest ticket she could find (about W750,000), and gave it to me with my last paycheck and severance.
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| And if you do get a school willing to just hand out extra cash you don't need for transportation, at least ask yourself if you really want that or possibly more time off. Personally, I would try to negotiate more time off during the year. |
Not a bad idea if you can pull it off, if it's your preference. I suspect that cash might actually be easier than extra vacation time, but you may be right.
My point is that the OP's boss has a contractual obligation to pay for a ticket for him regardless of whether he uses it or not. Since he doesn't plan to go home, it could be the starting point for a negotiation to get something that might cost his boss less, and actually be useful to the OP. Maybe cash, maybe a roundtrip ticket to Southeast Asia, maybe even some extra vacation. This could be a win-win situation if his boss is willing to play ball.
If I were in the OP's shoes and the boss wasn't willing to play ball, I'd demand he buy me the ticket, and set it on fire before I let him get away without giving me anything at all. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| My point is that the OP's boss has a contractual obligation to pay for a ticket for him regardless of whether he uses it or not. |
Where does it say this? If it is a public school, then they might be able to get it cause it doesn't cost them. I don't see how any hagwon owner who knows better would just give out that money.
Again, the money is for transportation. If they won't pay you for bus fare or subway costs, then how do you expect them to pay airfare?
It also doesn't seem morally right to demand that money when you won't use it for the purpose it was intended for.
Please post:
1) what it stated in your contract which would hold them to return airfare regardless if you leave Korea or not.
2) whether or not this was a hagwon, public school, etc...
3) whether or not this was a normal contract with normal hours and such. Just because they paid for the flight doesn't necessarily mean the "deal" as a whole is better. I used to work at a hagwon, they screwed all the teachers by not paying them for May, two other teachers (a couple) lost up to 8 million won and were evicted, I wasn't paid for my last month with them, and they would fire on the spot any part-timer that came to fill in the gaps. One teacher did get paid for a flight home before his 2nd year. It's still yet to be known if the school will pay severance and flight home again when he finishes, but that could be similar in your situation.
On the whole, normally speaking, I have never seen a school just outright paying for a flight knowing it wasn't going to actually be used for the teacher to return (home or back to the school for another year). |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My point is that the OP's boss has a contractual obligation to pay for a ticket for him regardless of whether he uses it or not. |
Where does it say this?
[quote= "timolein123"]it says in my contract party A agrees to buy a one way ticket for party B from south korea to his/her country.
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Again, the money is for transportation. If they won't pay you for bus fare or subway costs, then how do you expect them to pay airfare? |
Because his boss promised him that in his contract.
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| It also doesn't seem morally right to demand that money when you won't use it for the purpose it was intended for. |
I'm not sure what morals have to do with this, but let's say for the sake of argument that we were talking about a W400,000 per month housing allowance instead of airfare. The OP finds an apartment he likes that only costs him W300,000/mo. Would the OP have a moral imperative to return the extra W100,000 because he wasn't using it for rent?
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| On the whole, normally speaking, I have never seen a school just outright paying for a flight knowing it wasn't going to actually be used for the teacher to return (home or back to the school for another year). |
And I have seen it, and I've gotten cash equivalent of airfare from two different hogwons. It wasn't that hard to negotiate. And I didn't feel guilty about not using the money to buy a plane ticket home.
OP, you should have room to cut a deal with your boss here. Good luck. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Son Deureo!,
| Quote: |
| it says in my contract party A agrees to buy a one way ticket for party B from south korea to his/her country. |
Well, what you just stated is that they will buy the ticket. The only way for you to have received money from it is if you refunded it. So, what EXACTLY did it say?
It doesn't matter though. You can fudge the wording however you want to win a debate in these forums. So, let's look at the logic in this. I will show you where you are faulty, and let other readers think this out. If you want to gamble for the money go ahead, I advise not though folks.
| Quote: |
| let's say for the sake of argument that we were talking about a W400,000 per month housing allowance instead of airfare. The OP finds an apartment he likes that only costs him W300,000/mo. Would the OP have a moral imperative to return the extra W100,000 because he wasn't using it for rent? |
This shows how you are not looking at the whole thing. What I have quoted is a microcosm of the airfare situation. Specifically, in this case, we have a small but pricey factor you neglected to mention, the SECURITY DEPOSIT!!! Are you telling me 100,000 won extra is the same or better than giving up a 5-10 million won security deposit? 100,000 won is only 2% of the lowest amount for a security deposit.
So while you think you are getting 100,000 won per month, the landlord is investing your security deposit money and earning a lot more in the end.
There is also a risk factor. You can't get up and leave when the school mistreats you. Your money is tied up, financially and it's not secure.
This analogy no way relates to a ONE TIME payment for airfare for the purpose of transportation, and where additional money isn't tied up.
I can sit here telling you I have an apartment I am not paying for. I am provided with the nicest living accommodations I have had in 2 years in Korea (and 4 years in Kyoto Japan), and on top of it they are paying me 300,000 for housing allowance. I am getting both.
That doesn't mean it's normal, nor does it mean that everything else in the contract is normal either. I wouldn't tell anyone to expect getting both their apartment rent paid for (including the 5-10 million won security deposit) and money for housing allowance 300,000 won per month. In the same way, I don't know the situation and why you may have gotten airfare for a flight that the hagwon knew you weren't going to go on.
Schools in fact request boarding passes to confirm the teacher took the flight many times before reimbursing the teacher.
Until you give the details of your situation, I can't fully rely on this as a norm. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| timolein23 wrote: |
yeh I will have completed the contract. Im going on holiday to Bali so maybe they could pay for flights there and back.
it says in my contract party A agrees to buy a one way ticket for party B from south korea to his/her country.
Do most hagwons actually physically buy the ticket or just give you the money for it? |
Like everything here it depends. My old Hagwon bought me an open one-way ticket with cash, to my home city through their travel agent. If I don't use the ticket their travel agent will give the Hagwon the money back. The airline will not refund it.
The crazy thing is this cost the Hagwon more than a return ticket, and without some creative routing, it would have cost me more than a return ticket for the one way from home back here. The Hagwon was hoping I wouldn't use it and they could get their money back.
Some smaller hagwons will negotiate and offer you the money for a ticket to where you want to go, others will just give you the cash. You need to ask them. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Until you give the details of your situation, I can't fully rely on this as a norm. |
The full details of my current situation are none of your business and not relevant to this discussion.
The only reason I mentioned the fact that I have gotten cash in lieu of an air ticket twice was to illustrate that it may be possible for him to get what he wants.
Why you've gotten so hysterical about this is beyond me. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| was to illustrate that it may be possible for him to get what he wants. |
You didn't illustrate anything. You just showed one corner of something that you say is none of our business. You seem to be the only one mentioning this, but if you look at the thread below (as of now), you will see someone else stating the EXACT same thing as I have been.
| Quote: |
| was to illustrate that it may be possible for him to get what he wants. |
Not hysterical, just showing where you are misinforming people. I don't see what the big deal is. If you got something that everyone else should have as well in their contract, why not share it?
I think it's cause you realize now what I am saying. Anyway, I have stated my position on it and there are other posters who have stated the same thing. It's up the reader now to decide. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
Not hysterical, just showing where you are misinforming people. I don't see what the big deal is. If you got something that everyone else should have as well in their contract, why not share it?
I think it's cause you realize now what I am saying. Anyway, I have stated my position on it and there are other posters who have stated the same thing. It's up the reader now to decide. |
Dude, I no longer have any idea what you're saying.
All I ever said is that I managed to get exactly what the OP was trying to get from two different hogwons. If I could do it, then maybe he could as well.
I'm not sure why this comes across to you as "misinforming" anyone. |
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timolein23
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for all the input. Ill have a think about it and then decide what to do. I will probably try and negotiate for a return flight to indonesia.
Every thread always turns into a war of words on here! |
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