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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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 Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: British tanker siezed by Somali Pirates |
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British chemical tanker 'seized by Somali pirates'
Dec 29 Guardian
UK-flagged chemical tanker has been hijacked by Somali pirates, according to reports.
The reports said the vessel, the St James Park, was captured in the Gulf of Aden while on its way to Thailand from Spain and had since changed course for Somalia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/british-tanker-pirates-somalia?CMP=AFCYAH
Robin hood strikes again  . |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: Re: British tanker siezed by Somali Pirates |
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| Junior wrote: |
British chemical tanker 'seized by Somali pirates'
Dec 29 Guardian
UK-flagged chemical tanker has been hijacked by Somali pirates, according to reports.
The reports said the vessel, the St James Park, was captured in the Gulf of Aden while on its way to Thailand from Spain and had since changed course for Somalia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/british-tanker-pirates-somalia?CMP=AFCYAH
Robin hood strikes again . |
I remember certain people here trying to argue that the Somalian pirates were just Somalia's "volunteer coast guard" who work to protect Somalia from illegal fishing and nuclear waste dumping. Strange how the vessels they grab are so often high value vessels totally unrelated to fishing and nuclear waste dumping. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Its a natural sort of rebalancing of the earths wealth.
The money goes to the poor and needy of Somalia, albeit indirectly.
The hostages are treated like kings, they want for nothing.
Somalia's fish have been looted by the international community, their beaches despoiled by nuclear waste.
Now they're forced to make a living by other means. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe the French can help them |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Its a natural sort of rebalancing of the earths wealth.
The money goes to the poor and needy of Somalia, albeit indirectly.
The hostages are treated like kings, they want for nothing.
Somalia's fish have been looted by the international community, their beaches despoiled by nuclear waste.
Now they're forced to make a living by other means. |
The correct answer is for them to do what the majority of humans have done and form an effective government, after which they can protect their coasts through legitimate means, just like every other nation does. Their standard of living will also improve in the bargain.
There's no excuse for their piracy. It does nothing to improve Somalia as a country. In the long run, all it will do is get people -- mostly Somalians -- killed. Condoning it is totally unreasonable. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: Re: British tanker siezed by Somali Pirates |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
British chemical tanker 'seized by Somali pirates'
Dec 29 Guardian
UK-flagged chemical tanker has been hijacked by Somali pirates, according to reports.
The reports said the vessel, the St James Park, was captured in the Gulf of Aden while on its way to Thailand from Spain and had since changed course for Somalia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/british-tanker-pirates-somalia?CMP=AFCYAH
Robin hood strikes again . |
I remember certain people here trying to argue that the Somalian pirates were just Somalia's "volunteer coast guard" who work to protect Somalia from illegal fishing and nuclear waste dumping. Strange how the vessels they grab are so often high value vessels totally unrelated to fishing and nuclear waste dumping. |
Was that the same troll that suggested Somalia was an example of libertarianism in practice? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Was that the same troll that suggested Somalia was an example of libertarianism in practice? |
good god. 
An introductory book on political philosophy is definitely in order for many posters on here.
The Very Short Introductions series is good. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: British tanker siezed by Somali Pirates |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
British chemical tanker 'seized by Somali pirates'
Dec 29 Guardian
UK-flagged chemical tanker has been hijacked by Somali pirates, according to reports.
The reports said the vessel, the St James Park, was captured in the Gulf of Aden while on its way to Thailand from Spain and had since changed course for Somalia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/british-tanker-pirates-somalia?CMP=AFCYAH
Robin hood strikes again . |
I remember certain people here trying to argue that the Somalian pirates were just Somalia's "volunteer coast guard" who work to protect Somalia from illegal fishing and nuclear waste dumping. Strange how the vessels they grab are so often high value vessels totally unrelated to fishing and nuclear waste dumping. |
Indeed. Strange how these people are so quiet (excepting one) on this subject. Then again facts have never been their strong point. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
Its a natural sort of rebalancing of the earths wealth.
The money goes to the poor and needy of Somalia, albeit indirectly.
Pirates who seize multi-million dollar ships don't tend to be poor and needy for long. Strange how these "poor and needy" can afford AK-47s and rocket launchers.
The hostages are treated like kings, they want for nothing.
If being treated like a king means being murdered in cold blood then yes you are absolutely right.
Somalia's fish have been looted by the international community, their beaches despoiled by nuclear waste.
Now they're forced to make a living by other means. |
Only this living is going to get them killed if they keep on provoking the international community. And Somalia agreed to the nuclear waste disposal for cash. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| It does nothing to improve Somalia as a country. |
Apparently vibrant communities are springing up around the residences of the pirates. The lifeblood is returning to a country shamefully neglected by the international community.
| Quote: |
| In the long run, all it will do is get people -- mostly Somalians -- killed. |
How many pirates have been killed? a handful at most. yet the corrupt alliance of plundering nations have been forced to pay multimillions for their looting. Obviously its a price worth paying and a risk worth taking for the Somalis.
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| Somalia agreed to the nuclear waste disposal |
Nuclear waste was illegally dumped along the Somali coast by passing international ships. It was only urevealed when storms pushed up the barrels onto the beaches. There was no "agreement".
Funniest thing is no matter how many military forces they pour into patrolling somali waters, they can't hope to police such a massively large area.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
[q
| Quote: |
| Somalia agreed to the nuclear waste disposal |
Nuclear waste was illegally dumped along the Somali coast by passing international ships. It was only urevealed when storms pushed up the barrels onto the beaches. There was no "agreement".
l: |
No agreement? The European Green Party would beg to differ. They disclosed 2 contracts with Somalia with European firms (Achair Partners and Progresso). Under these contracts Somalia would accept 10 million tonnes of toxic waste for 80 million dollars.
Here's just one of the links that talks about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/somalia
As for the other illegal dumping all we have are claims. For all we know the toxic waste Somalia accepted was dumped there by Somalis. Funny how these "international ships" never seem to be identified.
And even if we accept these claims as true, that does not give them the right to piracy. Your logic fails.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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The area's too vast to patrol?
Allow merchant vessels passing thru the area to carry surface-to-surface missiles (or whatever ) with the soldiers required to operate them. Blow up the punks that approach without authorization. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: British tanker siezed by Somali Pirates |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
British chemical tanker 'seized by Somali pirates'
Dec 29 Guardian
UK-flagged chemical tanker has been hijacked by Somali pirates, according to reports.
The reports said the vessel, the St James Park, was captured in the Gulf of Aden while on its way to Thailand from Spain and had since changed course for Somalia.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/british-tanker-pirates-somalia?CMP=AFCYAH
Robin hood strikes again . |
I remember certain people here trying to argue that the Somalian pirates were just Somalia's "volunteer coast guard" who work to protect Somalia from illegal fishing and nuclear waste dumping. Strange how the vessels they grab are so often high value vessels totally unrelated to fishing and nuclear waste dumping. |
Was that the same troll that suggested Somalia was an example of libertarianism in practice? |
Mind you, no one gave a particularly compelling reason why Libertarianism wouldn't turn out that way. Somalia does have the rule of law on a local level, it has a system for arbitrating trade disputes, it has private property ownership, etc. Yes, you insisted it should be discounted as an example of Libertarianism because it's an unstable mess that's not internally at peace, but that's not particularly compelling to me, because I strongly suspect any Libertarian society would end up being an unstable mess that's not internally at peace (the Native Americans, who were also quite Libertarian by any realistic measure, also constantly fought among themselves).
Peace is the result of governance, and I really don't think Libertarian society has enough of it. People who argue for Libertarianism often do so from an economic perspective, but the human condition is about more than economics, and firm governance has an impact on humans at more than an economic level. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| It does nothing to improve Somalia as a country. |
Apparently vibrant communities are springing up around the residences of the pirates. The lifeblood is returning to a country shamefully neglected by the international community. |
"Vibrant" communities whose economies are based purely on money received from theft and kidnapping aren't vibrant communites at all. They're purely parasitic entities that are going to end in misfortune sooner or later.
| Junior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In the long run, all it will do is get people -- mostly Somalians -- killed. |
How many pirates have been killed? a handful at most. yet the corrupt alliance of plundering nations have been forced to pay multimillions for their looting. Obviously its a price worth paying and a risk worth taking for the Somalis. |
The fact that they put such a cheap price on their own lives just shows how dysfunctional the situation is. I'm genuinely shocked you're applauding this dysfunctionality.
This is not a sustainable situation, and it's not an ethical situation. These pirates aren't going to stop fishing in Somali waters, they're not going to stop nuclear waste in Somali waters, and they're not going to make things better for most Somalians. All they're going to do is enrich themselves -- and occasionally get themselves killed. It's purely selfish, it's nothing to be applauded, and it's the exact opposite of what Somalians should be doing.
Imagine if some man lost his job, and instead of trying to get another job, he just started busting into people's houses and robbing them. Would you applaud him? Of course not, you'd condemn him. What these pirates are doing is comparable; they lost their government -- and the benefits that come with firm governance, such as their coastal waters being protected by their nation's military -- and instead of working together to effectively build a new one, they just start robbing people. Yet for some reason you seem to support them. I simply can't understand it. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Junior made the point that they've made the calculation and piracy is worth the cost. This is the same decision anybody would make in their situation - it's human nature. We can't presume we'd be any better. |
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