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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: Name that "Double Standard" |
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| The term double standard, coined in the early 1950's, refers to any set of principles containing different provisions for one group of people than for another. |
I enjoy getting up in the morning and finding out what is "new" in the world.
However, in doing so, I have to wade through a knee high swill of "double standards" - most just commonly swallowed by people without any ado.
Name the double standard that really - "get's your goat". I'll start with my top 2.
1. Missile Testing
Every week or even day - we have frightening images of Iran / N. Korea
firing and testing "menacing" missiles. Yet, the testing of dozens and sometimes even hundreds of missiles by nations like Russia, the U.S. , India , Pakistan, France etc... are never mentioned nor noted in the wider media. Why? General Pace of the American military was asked and he stated:
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"the fact that a country is testing something like a missile is not destabilizing" as long as it is "designed for defense, and then are intended for use for defense, and they have competence in their ability to use those weapons for defense, it is a stabilizing event." |
I say semantics - poppycock and double standard.
2. Government spending
Governments see no problem spending vast amounts on the military. VAST. Yet when it comes to spending on health care and basic social assistance of the poor and working class - there is large upcry that "we can't afford it" , "it will bankrupt the nation" etc....
I say poppycock and double standard.
That's it for now. Add your own or debate whether others are "double standards".
Also, why can't I use the word "nigger" in public. Double standard?
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my response to #1 is...so? A double standard isn't always a bad thing in every situtation.
In regards to #2: http://www.federalbudget.com/
We spend more on Health and Human Services than Defense. Where's the double standard? |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think at times double standards are justified. A country with a reputation for pacifism testing a missile and an unstable one run by despots needs to be considered differently. But it is still a double standard.
All the other double standards I can think of seem to be about gender!
1. A man who sleeps around is a stud. A woman who sleeps around is a *beep*.
2. A father on TV who is a bumbling idiot is funny. A mother on TV who is a bumbling idiot is dark humor or isn't shown.
3. (Many) Korean men are protective of 'their' women from foreign men. These men can be expected to pile into the Baywatch movie.
4. (Some) women's groups want the right to go topless in parks and public places. Staring at a man's chest all day or touching it will still be legal and acceptable and doing the same with a woman will not.
5. An older man who doesn't marry can still be a glamorous bachelor. An older woman who doesn't marry is expected to have a cappucino card and cats.
6. A man talking dirty to a woman? Sexual harassment. A woman talking dirty to a man? $1.99 a minute.  |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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You want these animals to have the bomb?
And what are you gonna do when they send it your way... throw a daycare center at it? |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Name that "Double Standard" |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
1. Missile Testing
Every week or even day - we have frightening images of Iran / N. Korea
firing and testing "menacing" missiles. Yet, the testing of dozens and sometimes even hundreds of missiles by nations like Russia, the U.S. , India , Pakistan, France etc... are never mentioned nor noted in the wider media. Why? General Pace of the American military was asked and he stated:
| Quote: |
"the fact that a country is testing something like a missile is not destabilizing" as long as it is "designed for defense, and then are intended for use for defense, and they have competence in their ability to use those weapons for defense, it is a stabilizing event." |
I say semantics - poppycock and double standard. |
I usually try to just stay away from any sort of political thread on Daves, but I had to respond to this post.
It�s not a double standard because NK and Iran do not reach the same standard as other countries. They operate under a completely different set of principles and rules.
What General Pace said makes more sense then you are allowing it. Missiles do not have to be offensive weapons. General Pace is clearly saying that focusing on missiles designed to prevent attack are legitimate (such as those for targeting offensive missiles). Missiles designed to initiate attack are not.
If you want a perfectly clear illustration of both points, look up NK 4th of July antics. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A father on TV who is a bumbling idiot is funny. A mother on TV who is a bumbling idiot is dark humor or isn't shown. |
Arrested Development...? |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding #1, aside from the totally juvenile allegation of equivalence that others have rubbished above, there are two further fallacies evident:
* ad hominem tu quoque (well, Bob cannot possibly criticize John's ownership of a gun if Bob himself owns guns, can he?)
* two wrongs don't make a right (Bob owning a gun doesn't, in and of itself, qualify John to own one. It depends on John's personal traits. Does this simple, childhood morality become invalid when the context changes to international law and nuclear weapons?)
And as for this.....
| ddeubel wrote: |
Also, why can't I use the word "nigger" in public. Double standard?
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Pathetic.
To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage.
Most people see the world in subtle shades of gray. Ddeubel and the leftist equivalence brigade - 'everything is relative and therefore equivalent', 'all cultures are equal, so if France can have nukes, why not Somalia?' - see only one color. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage.
Most people see the world in subtle shades of gray. Ddeubel and the leftist equivalence brigade - 'everything is relative and therefore equivalent', 'all cultures are equal, so if France can have nukes, why not Somalia?' - see only one color. |
Thank you  |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Arrested Development...? |
That's true. And perhaps Married with Children, although Peg isn't always so stupid as she is lazy.
Are there others?
7. If I'm on time for the doctor's appointment, I have to wait forty minutes. If I'm late for the doctor's appointment, they make a huff about how I'm not respectful about their time. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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ddeubel wrote:
Also, why can't I use the word "nigger" in public. Double standard?
Pathetic.
To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage. |
I completely agree. The question was rhetorical.
Hey, I'm totally against any missile testing. But to pretend we wear the white hat and the others are abject evil is just a very poor view of human nature / history. And it will lead us nowhere in terms of de-escalation of this very serious thing. But my point is more - why create this big climate of fear? Panic? It is just irresponsible and not constructive. The first step to dialogue and peace is to understand your enemy - not broad brush stroke them. Gen. Pace is just a moron. To consider whatever America does as "defensive" and whatever another nation does as "offensive" is psychotic.
About health care vs the military.
You might have a point. I'll reply later. But what about spending $$$$$ on bailouts but penny pinching when it comes to giving the poor some basic dental care?
DD
http://eflclassroom.com |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Hey, I'm totally against any missile testing. But to pretend we wear the white hat and the others are abject evil is just a very poor view of human nature / history. And it will lead us nowhere in terms of de-escalation of this very serious thing. But my point is more - why create this big climate of fear? Panic? It is just irresponsible and not constructive. The first step to dialogue and peace is to understand your enemy - not broad brush stroke them. |
How much more do you need to know about NK and Iran before you know you cannot treat them like other countries? A climate of fear and panic is not the answer, but neither is blind optimism.
| ddeubel wrote: |
| Gen. Pace is just a moron. To consider whatever America does as "defensive" and whatever another nation does as "offensive" is psychotic. |
While I find your argumentative skills laudable, I missed the part of the quote that dealt with specific countries. I clearly explained to you that there are two types of missiles; that is what the quote seems to be addressing. I�m not supporting General Pace or the US military�s strategies, but if you use a quote to make your point, you�ll have to choose more wisely.
NK threatens to attack the US, and does a number of offensive missiles testing prior to the 4th of July. Meanwhile, the US tests its sea based counter missile technology. Are you saying these two events are equal? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage. |
I strongly disagree with this. This word debases and humiliates Blacks, regardless of if the speaker is Black or White. If anything, it's worse when Blacks use it, because they are construing themselves as inferior. This is a much more challenging social issue. It's difficult to stop one group from marginalizing another group. It's almost impossible to stop one group from marginalizing themselves, and the self-reinforcement that perpetuates the issue is much stronger. That's exactly what the Blacks that frequently use the word "nigger" are doing. |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage. |
I strongly disagree with this. This word debases and humiliates Blacks, regardless of if the speaker is Black or White. If anything, it's worse when Blacks use it, because they are construing themselves as inferior. This is a much more challenging social issue. It's difficult to stop one group from marginalizing another group. It's almost impossible to stop one group from marginalizing themselves, and the self-reinforcement that perpetuates the issue is much stronger. That's exactly what the Blacks that frequently use the word "nigger" are doing. |
Says who? Your assumption that the word "humiliates" all Blacks is a huge assumption. Certainly society puts a taboo on the word, but whether uttering it "humiliates" or "debases" the person depends on the situtation and whether or not the parties involved choose to be humiliated/debased. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ropebreezy wrote: |
| Says who? Your assumption that the word "humiliates" all Blacks is a huge assumption. Certainly society puts a taboo on the word, but whether uttering it "humiliates" or "debases" the person depends on the situtation and whether or not the parties involved choose to be humiliated/debased. |
If you don't think the subculture amongst Blacks that primarily makes use of this word is humilating and self-destructive -- and that their usage of the word is symptomatic of those features -- I don't know what to tell you. Your "Something is only humilating or debasing if someone chooses to be humilated or debased," theory is right up there with, "Your actions are sexual harassment if the person you're talking to feels harassed." |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| To give it a serious answer - although it doesn't deserve one - there is, again, a lack of equivalence between a white person's usage of that word and a black person's usage, because a black person's usage doesn't carry the same political connotations - black inferiority - as a white person's usage. |
I strongly disagree with this. This word debases and humiliates Blacks, regardless of if the speaker is Black or White. If anything, it's worse when Blacks use it, because they are construing themselves as inferior. This is a much more challenging social issue. It's difficult to stop one group from marginalizing another group. It's almost impossible to stop one group from marginalizing themselves, and the self-reinforcement that perpetuates the issue is much stronger. That's exactly what the Blacks that frequently use the word "nigger" are doing. |
I've always heard that blacks have low self-esteem and see themselves as inferior. But my interactions suggest otherwise. So I used the google to see if there was some data...
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The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health asked 310 teens to rate their intelligence. You can see in the graph that blacks are more likely than any other group to say they are moderately or extremely above average. By contrast, no Asians put themselves in the smartest category. Here are the means:
Mean self-perceived intelligence
White 3.74
Blacks 4.19
American Indian 3.52
Asians 3.79
Other 3.60
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http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2009/03/blacks-think-they-are-smartest.html
The actual blog seems to be written by a guy who doesn't like Africans much so.. But he used data from a proper uni study:
http://www.cpc.unc.edu/projects/addhealth
I don't think when one African calls another by the n-word that they are expressing inferiority any more than when one gay dude calls another 'fag'. Groups will often reclaim words that were once used to berate them in an effort to strip it of power. |
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