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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Do we even know for sure that these two people even exist? |
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SoCalRich
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Location: Los Angeles and San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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he shared a few drinks with and then convinced to accompany him to a sauna |
Sounds plausible to me too. Drinks --> sex. It's not an entirely unheard of connection. |
drinks = sex? that's date rape logic. So is falling asleep = sex. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Old Gil for being fair.
I think there is a serious strain of misogynist thought to this. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Thank you Old Gil for being fair.
I think there is a serious strain of misogynist thought to this. |
There is a serious strain of misogynist thought in the concept that the Korean media may have misrepresented this case in an all-too-common act of smearing foreigners? |
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Loza
Joined: 28 May 2006
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Yes, thank you to Old Gil for your comments. Some of the other comments here are a bit off!
"What kind of girl gets drunk and goes with a stranger into a building where dudes get naked? "
That's a pretty uncalled for character judgement of the girl involved! You don't have all the facts. Plus jimjilbangs are actually for both sexes. The area where men and women bathe is completely segregated. The unisex area is often filled with couples, families and elderly people and all must wear provided shorts/t-shirts sets.
When drunk, people can make some bad choices. But sexual assault is always wrong. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Loza wrote: |
Plus jimjilbangs are actually for both sexes. The area where men and women bathe is completely segregated. The unisex area is often filled with couples, families and elderly people and all must wear provided shorts/t-shirts sets. |
Which is exactly why the idea of a foreigner taking a Korean woman there and raping her seems so questionable, as a number of the so called "misogynists" in this thread have pointed out. |
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what the thunder said
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Panda wrote: |
Look, this woman already even agreed to go to a Jimjilbang with him, she obviously didn't dislike him in the first place.
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I guess I shouldn't have expected more from the Dave's crowd. Still incredibly disappointing. Whether some of you want to own up to it or not, this isn't different from the "she was asking for it" stance. But whatever helps you sleep at night. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Location: Got out! olleh!
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Thank you Old Gil for being fair.
I think there is a serious strain of misogynist thought to this. |
Jesus in Himmel it's ridiculous.
I know that message boards are the domain of the male and maladroit but let's tone it down fellas. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Loza wrote: |
"What kind of girl gets drunk and goes with a stranger into a building where dudes get naked? "
That's a pretty uncalled for character judgement of the girl involved! You don't have all the facts. Plus jimjilbangs are actually for both sexes. The area where men and women bathe is completely segregated. The unisex area is often filled with couples, families and elderly people and all must wear provided shorts/t-shirts sets.
When drunk, people can make some bad choices. But sexual assault is always wrong. |
I really have my doubts that these two people even exist. If they do, I think it's premature to convict the man based on a Korean news report. As one poster pointed out earlier, we're talking about the same Korean media who said an American GI sexually assaulted a Korean woman on a subway when what happened in reality is the American simply put his arm around his own wife's waist.
The same misandrists in this thread who are convicting the guy in the jimjilbang are the same ones who would've convicted the GI of sexual assault.
If the guy exists and is guilty of rape, I hope he receives the death penalty. I really do. That still doesn't mean it isn't stupid and irresponsible for a woman to get drunk and go to a bathhouse with a male total stranger. If the story is true, how can the woman's dad not be upset at both of them?
I don't get drunk and sleep on basketball courts in the housing projects in Memphis because, for starters, there's a hightened risk of losing my wallet, my money, my watch, my gold rings, my gold chains, my Air Jordans, and maybe even my life. That does not justify a robbery or excuse thieves. But it doesn't make getting drunk and sleeping on a basketball court on the bad side of town (or really anywhere) any less stupid and irresponsible. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a link that illustrates that, in the United States, a person can accuse you of just about anything of a sexual nature, and no matter how vicious, how evil, and how factually baseless the accusation is, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It happens all the time.
Misogyny? Here is how ridiculous it has become:
http://www.hrhero.com/q&a/101405-false.shtml
Q: I am the HR director for an electronics assembly plant. Recently we received a sexual harassment complaint from one of our employees. He claimed that his immediate supervisor continually pressured him to have sex with her and threatened to have him fired when he rejected her advances. Our HR department immediately conducted an investigation. After extensive questioning, the employee admitted that he had falsely accused his supervisor. He said he made the complaint because his supervisor had rejected his sexual advances and he decided to get even with her. We ended our investigation and issued a written warning to the employee for making the false accusations.
The employee almost immediately filed a sexual harassment charge with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), including a claim that we retaliated against him for complaining about harassment. The EEOC referred the claim to the New Mexico Human Rights Division (NMHRD) for investigation under its work-sharing agreement. We shared the results of our internal investigation with the NMHRD and provided a statement from another employee who came forward to say that the complaining employee had said he "would do anything" to get rid of his supervisor. The division dismissed the charge. I don't believe that we should permit anyone to get away with filing a totally false sexual harassment or other discrimination charge. Can I fire him for filing the charge?
A: That's a frequently asked question, and employers are usually shocked to learn that under the majority position adopted by most courts, an individual filing a discrimination or sexual harassment charge is protected from retaliatory action by an employer ? even if the claim is factually baseless or even false. The reasoning is that the law must extend absolute protection to individuals who file a charge so they won't fear retaliation if their charge is later determined not to have merit. |
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SoCalRich
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Location: Los Angeles and San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Reggie wrote: |
Loza wrote: |
"What kind of girl gets drunk and goes with a stranger into a building where dudes get naked? "
That's a pretty uncalled for character judgement of the girl involved! You don't have all the facts. Plus jimjilbangs are actually for both sexes. The area where men and women bathe is completely segregated. The unisex area is often filled with couples, families and elderly people and all must wear provided shorts/t-shirts sets.
When drunk, people can make some bad choices. But sexual assault is always wrong. |
I really have my doubts that these two people even exist. If they do, I think it's premature to convict the man based on a Korean news report. As one poster pointed out earlier, we're talking about the same Korean media who said an American GI sexually assaulted a Korean woman on a subway when what happened in reality is the American simply put his arm around his own wife's waist.
The same misandrists in this thread who are convicting the guy in the jimjilbang are the same ones who would've convicted the GI of sexual assault.
If the guy exists and is guilty of rape, I hope he receives the death penalty. I really do. That still doesn't mean it isn't stupid and irresponsible for a woman to get drunk and go to a bathhouse with a male total stranger. If the story is true, how can the woman's dad not be upset at both of them?
I don't get drunk and sleep on basketball courts in the housing projects in Memphis because, for starters, there's a hightened risk of losing my wallet, my money, my watch, my gold rings, my gold chains, my Air Jordans, and maybe even my life. That does not justify a robbery or excuse thieves. But it doesn't make getting drunk and sleeping on a basketball court on the bad side of town (or really anywhere) any less stupid and irresponsible. |
You doubt these people exist? There is no evidence of that, just like we don't know if this is true. The problem is that some of the people on here are trying to justify his accused actions by logic that is synonymous with rapists. Saying things like, "Well she drank with me so she must want to have sex" is a huge mistake in judgment and poor character. Imagine if the accused rapist were to use this kind of defense in court. He would be sent to jail right away. We as Western men should know that sex must be consensual. We're not animals. If some girl falls asleep around you then it doesn't give you the right to take advantage of her just like it isn't right to steal from someone sleeping either. Is it irresponsible? Yes. But in the eyes of the law, it doesn't matter. I'm surprised that some of you are not ashamed at what you said. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised that some of you are not ashamed at what you said. |
What statements, in particular, would you decree shame upon? |
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SoCalRich
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Location: Los Angeles and San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Trevor wrote: |
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I'm surprised that some of you are not ashamed at what you said. |
What statements, in particular, would you decree shame upon? |
Have you read them? The one I replied to above, and the ones saying that, "well she went to a sauna with him". Obviously there are cases where there are false accusations just like there are false accusations of many different crimes. But does that automatically cause doubt in your mind. I know that this is all for a discussion, but the different defenses that people have come up for this guy are ridiculous and shows poor character (typical of any cowardly loser who writes on the internet what he would never say in person and finds satisfaction in that). Rape victims often have a tough time testifying, and besides this girl was asleep. The strongest arguments for defending this guy is against the Korean media. But you're all sounding like apologists for Expats... as if Expats have never done anything wrong, because you yourself might be one. But in my opinion, the few that have the "she asked for it" mentality have a rapist's logic. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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typical of any cowardly loser who writes on the internet what he would never say in person and finds satisfaction in that |
I think you should be ashamed of that statement. I am fairly certain you would not have the courage say that to someone's face.
People have every right to express themselves in (relative) anonymity if they choose. I don't (many people here are aware of my identity) but I strongly defend a person's right to express opinions which, because of the often ridiculous repression of ideas which do not pass the litmus test for political correctness, are inadvisable to express in normal conversation where people, particularly women, are very likely to attempt social sanctions against. This is a very troubling fact of modern existance. Modern feminism has made tremendous strides in repressing free speech. Valid ideas get pushed to the margin by the prevailing structures of hegemony. Anonymous conversations have a perfectly valid reason for being. Both sides of the discussion have been more frank here than they would be in person -- including you.
Last edited by Trevor on Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Before we condemn the Korean media- Duke Lacrosse team anyone?
Yes its a possibility, but the woman's claim should be taken at face value pending an investigation. Of course the man should retain the idea of innocent until proven guilty in the courtroom.
But this whole she was asking for it, and she's just a tramp and blah blah blah is so off.
Korea has a fairly lousy record at this kind of thing so I understand where people are coming from, still let's take her claim at face value, just as we would if we heard about an NET being raped by a cabbie. |
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