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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: Lee Vows to Keep 'Hagwon' at Bay |
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http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/113_59804.html
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As a matter of fact, Lee announced a plan Wednesday to have foreign-language high schools introduce admissions officers and select new students on the basis of their middle school academic records in English.
He believes that it will dampen the fierce competition among middle school seniors to enter these special purpose schools in hopes of gaining better footing to be accepted to reputable colleges.
"In the end, I believe that Korea will have college education that is comparable in quality to those of other advanced countries," he said. "Then, the exodus of students going out of the country in search of a better education will subside." |
If you read that and laugh, please don't. Remember, as you were told earlier in this article,
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| ...Lee, a holder of a Ph.D. in economics from Cornell University... |
Ahh... the importance of school name-dropping! Without it, I don't think I could believe his ideas were possible. Never under-estimate the importance of dropping a university name to give your ideas legitimacy, no matter how laughable. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Ok I'll bite and ask..
Why is it so bad to try and regulate the Hakwons and impose some sort of selection standard?
Just curious. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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It's the way they're going about it.
His measure will just mean that parents will being spending more money earlier to get students into the right school.
In reality, it could mean more kids going overseas for study (and eventually returning for overseas education).
The problem isn't the hagwons... it's the horrid public school quality situation, fueled by a confucist teacher nightmate ideology, among other things. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response Bass.
I see your point.
However, I think this statement is not very well put. It is a bit too one sided and a tad too simplistic. I know you want to point to what you see as a problem but you use terms that are more insulting than anything else. It begs the question of: what makes you an expert on the state of public schools in Korea and on the quality of its Teachers?
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| it's the horrid public school quality situation, fueled by a confucist teacher nightmate ideology, among other things. |
I am not saying public schools are perfect in Korea as many do have problems but they sure are not hell holes (horrid) populated by tyranical confucist despot-teachers either.....thats a gross simplification that demeans the majority of teachers that are probably doing their best in an imperfect situation.
Just my two cents and feel free to flame me as a confucist sympathizer....  |
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bigtexas
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: |
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ask any korean student. 99 percent will say that they hate their public school and that the majority of their teachers are too old (yes, some are 65) and only read from the book and then sit down for the rest of class. This is coming from their mouths and I have heard it 100000000 times.
The problem is that teachers in korea have jobs for life and some are only there to collect a paycheck and actually hate teaching. This is not something new, korean students complain more about this than any other issue. |
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sarbonn
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Lee Vows to Keep 'Hagwon' at Bay |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...Lee, a holder of a Ph.D. in economics from Cornell University... |
Ahh... the importance of school name-dropping! Without it, I don't think I could believe his ideas were possible. Never under-estimate the importance of dropping a university name to give your ideas legitimacy, no matter how laughable. |
I have to share this, mainly because I think I may have missed sharing this with you all when I was here.
I was teaching at a debate school that was bought by a shyster English academy owner whose one claim to fame was essentially: "I graduate from Harvard". I knew this because I was told this 50 times before he showed up, and then I was told this 1000 times after he arrived, including 50 times by him as well. I must share my first full (and last) conversation with him (before I left and never came back...for other reasons, but that's not important here):
Him: Hello. I graduate from Harvard.
Me: Um, that's great. What have you done since then?
Him: (perplexed, thinking about the question) I graduate from Harvard.
Me: Hey, that's great. I graduated from West Point. Then I picked up several master's degrees, and I did my Ph.d work at Western Michigan University. Where'd you do your graduate work?
Him: (even more perplexed) I graduate from Harvard.
Me: Okay, great meeting you (as I walked away, slowly)
Turns out, he graduated from Harvard with his BA. That's the completion of his education.
Since then, he's gone around Korea holding seminars for parents about how their kids can get into Harvard just like him. Seriously. That's his schtick. Then he runs up a bunch of debts, realizes he can't pay the Korean staff working for him, and then disappears for a few months before emerging again in a new "business" where he teaches young kids how they, too, can be rich and famous like he is. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| bigtexas wrote: |
ask any student. 99 percent will say that they hate their public school and that the majority of their teachers are too old (yes, some are 65) and only read from the book and then sit down for the rest of class. This is coming from their mouths and I have heard it 100000000 times.
The problem is that teachers have jobs for life and some are only there to collect a paycheck and actually hate teaching. This is not something new, students complain more about this than any other issue. |
Fixed it for you |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| bigtexas wrote: |
ask any korean student. 99 percent will say that they hate their public school and that the majority of their teachers are too old (yes, some are 65) and only read from the book and then sit down for the rest of class. This is coming from their mouths and I have heard it 100000000 times.
The problem is that teachers in korea have jobs for life and some are only there to collect a paycheck and actually hate teaching. This is not something new, korean students complain more about this than any other issue. |
Hey Tex...how many high school students do you know back home say they like or love their public schools? How many High School students like to study?
Come on and 100000000000000000000000 times?
By the way, Canadian Teachers also have 'jobs for life'....just so you know. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
However, I think this statement is not very well put. It is a bit too one sided and a tad too simplistic. I know you want to point to what you see as a problem but you use terms that are more insulting than anything else. It begs the question of: what makes you an expert on the state of public schools in Korea and on the quality of its Teachers? |
Sure, there are good teachers, but they're held down by the confucist system (and a backwards union).
I don't need to be an "expert" on the school system here. Koreans know its broken. It's been discussed at length for years, by both Koreans and foreigners. If everything were OK, do you think hagwons would be so necessary?
And as for being "simplistic," I didn't feel the need to write more. Why waste the time? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Lee Vows to Keep 'Hagwon' at Bay |
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| sarbonn wrote: |
Since then, he's gone around Korea holding seminars for parents about how their kids can get into Harvard just like him. Seriously. That's his schtick. Then he runs up a bunch of debts, realizes he can't pay the Korean staff working for him, and then disappears for a few months before emerging again in a new "business" where he teaches young kids how they, too, can be rich and famous like he is. |
And you never bothered to pay him for his time? Seriously, dude... he was from Harvard! What are you, a friggin' idiot? Obviously you were too blind to notice the benefits of merely having this man breathe in you presence. And you didn't even think to palm him a few man won for those words of wisdom he shared?
Personally, I don't think you're worthy of conversing with another Korean Harvard graduate ever again. If you don't learn your place in this society, you're never going to succeed.
Now go to your room and sulk!  |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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The biggest reason that the Korean public school system remains "broke" is that the parents want it to remain that way and that is why it will not change in the foreseeable future.
They bitch about the cost and the "unfairness" of the system, all the while thinking that they are getting their kids ahead.
Until the actual criteria for college entrance is not dependent on what the hagwon system can deliver the present system will never change. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| bigtexas wrote: |
| The problem is that teachers in korea have jobs for life and some are only there to collect a paycheck and actually hate teaching. This is not something new, korean students complain more about this than any other issue. |
Well most people working in government positions are just deadbeats collecting a paycheck. It doesn't matter what country you're talking about.
Seems to be endemic in the education field especially when people are tenured. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Lee Vows to Keep 'Hagwon' at Bay |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...Lee, a holder of a Ph.D. in economics from Cornell University... |
Ahh... the importance of school name-dropping! Without it, I don't think I could believe his ideas were possible. Never under-estimate the importance of dropping a university name to give your ideas legitimacy, no matter how laughable. |
You're coming off way bitter here. It's not as if Mr. Lee mentioned where he went to school - the article writer did. It's normal convention to describe the school government officials went to in newspaper and magazine articles. How many times have we heard that Obama went to Harvard or that Bush went to Yale. Is that name dropping too?
Plus, Mr. Lee recognizes one of the big problems as he wants to "help (students) become rational thinkers rather than receptacles of rote knowledge" and I agree with his assessment. I can't say I know enough of managing a national education system to say that his ideas are "laughable" and I doubt you do either. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Madoka is right on here Bass.
As far as commenting on the quality or state of the education system in Korea, you would need to be an expert to have an informed and valid opinion. Otherwise its just an observation from an outsider with incomplete information.
That is no slam or insult. The comment you keep making on confucist system is odd. How do you define the confucist system? What are its characteristics? Is it truly a system or rather a school of thought?
This confucist label gets tossed around a lot here to qualify something as bad or innefficient but many people have no idea what confucianism actually is.
As for your question: if everything wrre ok do I think Hakwons would be necessary?
In an ideal world not they would not be. But, I suspect they would still be there offering an additional service for those who want more than what the system offers.
The simplistic comment was meant to highlight the fact that when a person reduces such a complex issue as an entire education system to a brief collection of drive by hit sentences they tend to warp the issue in a hurry to pass a flashy judgement. From your posts here you seem smarter than that...hence my comments. |
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