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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: The Resurrection of Herbert Hoover Is Upon Us |
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Well maybe, maybe not.
Obama to Call for Three-Year Freeze on Some Federal Spending
Jan. 26 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama will call in his State of the Union address for a three-year freeze on spending for many domestic programs as part of his strategy to rein in the deficit, administration officials said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20100126/pl_bloomberg/af2fhldmqvdg_1
It didn't work out really well for FDR either (1937). Can Hoovervilles be far behind?
Jared Bernstein explains the administration view:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35069615
Why the heck cap student loan repayments? That isn't job creation. I have some sympathy for the people who got scammed into buying houses they couldn't afford, but students knew exactly what they were borrowing. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Re: The Resurrection of Herbert Hoover Is Upon Us |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Well maybe, maybe not.
Obama to Call for Three-Year Freeze on Some Federal Spending
Jan. 26 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama will call in his State of the Union address for a three-year freeze on spending for many domestic programs as part of his strategy to rein in the deficit, administration officials said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20100126/pl_bloomberg/af2fhldmqvdg_1
It didn't work out really well for FDR either (1937). Can Hoovervilles be far behind?
Jared Bernstein explains the administration view:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35069615
Why the heck cap student loan repayments? That isn't job creation. I have some sympathy for the people who got scammed into buying houses they couldn't afford, but students knew exactly what they were borrowing. |
What does this have to do with Hoover? I fear you're drunk on the propaganda from economics departments.
The reason student loan payments are being capped is that a common response of recently graduated students to excessive payments is permanent delinquency. They just stop paying. Some pack up and leave the country. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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What does this have to do with Hoover? I fear you're drunk on the propaganda from economics departments.
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As opposed to being drunk on the propaganda from 'obscure turn-of-the-century Austrians'? (I came across that in a Paul Krugman piece the other day. It made my day.
I don't hate Hoover. He was a nice man--he was from Iowa, after all. He was a terrific humanitarian. He just took bad economic advice.
I am skeptical of this spending freeze in the midst of a major recession. Generally, I think frugality and cutting out waste is done properly in good times and deficit spending done in bad times. (I'm very leery of one-size-fits-all economic theories--they smack of ideology rather than realism.)
After 30 years of domination by the fiscally conservative GOP, I'm doubtful there's much left in the budget that can be cut without doing harm. I'm sure all the fat has been cut out already.
I was happy to hear that it isn't an across the board cut. Those don't make much sense. I'm anxious to hear more details in the SOTU address Wednesday night.
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The reason student loan payments are being capped is that a common response of recently graduated students to excessive payments is permanent delinquency. They just stop paying. Some pack up and leave the country. |
I still bemoan the closure of debtors' prisons. A little job creation opportunity here--hire a few bounty hunters to hunt down those permanent delinquents hiding out in foreign countries and drag their sorry hide back home. (My exposure to the under-30 crowd here at Dave's has kind of soured me on that age bracket.) I had to pay back my loans in the stagflation years of the mid/late 70's. I'm not too interested in listening to anyone whining about their problem. To take a page out of Hooverism: Let 'em sell pencils on street corners! |
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conrad2
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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All that fat has been cut out? How about dismantling US Forces Korea for openers. And what exactly do the Departments of Education and Agriculture do that cant be done by local or state government? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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"It�s bad economics, depressing demand when the economy is still suffering from mass unemployment. Jonathan Zasloff writes that Obama seems to have decided to fire Tim Geithner and replace him with �the rotting corpse of Andrew Mellon� (Mellon was Herbert Hoover�s Treasury Secretary, who according to Hoover told him to �liquidate the workers, liquidate the farmers, purge the rottenness�.)"
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/obama-liquidates-himself/
Hmmm...the rotting corpse of Andrew Mellon...purge the rottenness. Haven't I heard that purge urged around here pretty often? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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New political term of note: DEFICIT PEACOCK
How to Spot a Deficit Peacock
Four Ways to Tell When Someone Isn't Serious About the Deficit
Deficit hawks come in a variety of breeds. There are those who believe that the long-term deficits pose serious risks, but that short-term deficits are necessary and wise during a recession. There are those who believe that deficits are always risky and should be avoided at all costs. Both kinds of hawks are genuine in their concern over our nation�s finances and are sincerely committed to working toward a more sustainable federal budget.
And then there is another species of deficit bird all together: the deficit peacock. Deficit peacocks like to preen and call attention to themselves, but are not sincerely interested in taking the difficult but necessary steps toward a balanced budget. Peacocks prefer scoring political points to solving problems.
Here are four easy ways to tell when someone isn�t taking our budget problems seriously.
1. They never mention revenues.
2. They offer easy answers.
3. They support policies that make the long-term deficit problem worse.
4. They think our budget woes appeared suddenly in January 2009.
There are people from all parts of the political spectrum who strongly and sincerely believe that our current budget path is unsustainable and are committed to taking concrete steps to put the country on a better path. But there are also many who are only interested in scoring political points or in getting in the way of progress on this issue. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between the two.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/01/deficit_peacock.html
A pretty good article. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
New political term of note: DEFICIT PEACOCK |
Yeah, I've suddenly been seeing that term a lot. I like it, it's a pretty accurate characterization. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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conrad2 wrote: |
All that fat has been cut out? How about dismantling US Forces Korea for openers. And what exactly do the Departments of Education and Agriculture do that cant be done by local or state government? |
Actually I am liking the Dept. of Education right now. Arne Duncan rocks, and it looks like the D. of Education is inspiring reforms that the entire country could benefit from. Honestly, that is the one part of the Obama administration I like right now. Rest of it? Not really inspiring me to vote for Obama in 2012.
Anyway, ya-ta, are you kidding me about the fat? We got dumb ass entitlements up the wazoo. We should eliminate every farm subsidy. That prescription drug monstrosity passed by the Bush administration should be killed. We also need to face the fact that social security and medicare are killing our gov't finances, and need to be reformed. I know that is a political impossibility though.
THIS COUNTRY'S LEADERS NEED TO FIND SOME GODDAMN POLITICAL COURAGE AND MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS. THE ROOSTERS HAVE COME HOME TO ROOST!
I really am disgusted by Congress, and disappointed in Obama. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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conrad2/bucheon bum:
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All that fat has been cut out?/ Anyway, ya-ta, are you kidding me about the fat? |
US Forces Korea is not on the table, nor are any of the other 100+ bases we have scattered around the world. There is to be no cutting of the Pentagon budget. Right or wrong, that is not on the table.
Education/Agriculture/Social Security etc.:
I feel safe in saying that when Reagan came in in �81 on the slogan that gov�t wasn�t the solution, it was the problem and rallied the fiscal conservatives of both parties (remember the Reagan Democrats?) that he took a meat ax to �government waste, fraud and abuse�, as the saying was in those days. After all, he cut taxes and only a fool would reduce income and not reduce expenditures, right? I�m confident that Bush I (the �read my lips, no new taxes� Bush) followed suit with further trimming. Clinton came in and declared the end of big government and balanced the budget, so that must have meant squeezing any further fat out. Then we had 8 years of Bush II, starting with his tax cut, followed by two wars. It would be unbelievable, nay, criminally irresponsible, to reduce income while fighting two wars and not make some savings somewhere. I refuse to believe that fiscal conservatives would do that to us.
So, 1980-2010, thirty years of fiscal conservatism. If there is any fat left in the system after all that, well, I don�t know what to say. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Bush II was responsible for the biggest gov't spending programs since LBJ!
Ya-ta, come on man.. You buy all that hype? That's total bs. Fiscal conservatism is a concept, not a reality. Trust me, THERE IS GOV'T FAT. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yataboy wrote: |
Hoover....just took bad economic advice. |
Indeed. The Hoover admin was one of massive government intervention.
* the largest tax increase in peacetime history
* tarrifs (yet, at the same time, farming and business subsidies)
* wage control during a time of plunging profits and prices
Roosevelt beat Hoover in 1932 with promises of less government!
http://fee.org/articles/great-myths-of-the-great-depression/
Yataboy wrote: |
As opposed to being drunk on the propaganda from 'obscure turn-of-the-century Austrians'? |
Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich von Hayek are hardly obscure. Not only are they not obscure, but there�s an overwhelming amount of data that vindicates those views. If you ever read anything that actually challenges your worldview, I would recommend Human Action and The Road to Serfdom by the respective authors. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: |
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bucheon bum wrote: |
Bush II was responsible for the biggest gov't spending programs since LBJ!
Ya-ta, come on man.. You buy all that hype? That's total bs. Fiscal conservatism is a concept, not a reality. Trust me, THERE IS GOV'T FAT. |
Thirty years of Reaganomics can't possibly have been a....LIE....could it? Please say it isn't so, Mr. bum. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:34 am Post subject: |
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The Road to Serfdom |
Isn't this just an early example of Rovianism? You know, figure out what objectionable thing you yourself are doing to the public and then accuse the opposition party of doing it.
I've been saying for 35 years we were on the road back to the Middle Ages. The increase in superstition, weakening of states in favor of local centers of power (in this case corporations) who control the lives of people, private armies not controlled by the state, the return of torture as state policy, weird-looking art that looks like dyslexic kids made it...
I'm just glad I still have a forelock to pull. |
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