Korean Job Discussion Forums

[noobteacher]

Just something I've been curious about. There is always tons of talk about pros/cons of Hagwons, how to try and sniff out the bad ones, etc., but I don't think the number of foreign teachers at a Hagwon has ever really been discussed.

From people's experiences, does the number of FTs correlate with the quality or general work conditions of a hagwon? For example should one stay away from those with only 2 FTs because it means it is small, at risk of going out of business./shady practices vs those with 15+ FTs meaning generally good working conditions, no problems with pay, etc.

Anybody have any opinions on this?

[lifeinkorea]

[noobteacher]

Ahh, thanks for your input! I kind of figured that the number of foreign teachers at a school could not be definitively pegged as an indicator and that its the typical "every school is different" kind of situation, and you definitely showed that!

[mld]

Every school is different, but a larger number of foreign teachers could indicate a few things:

1) If a school can keep more teachers, it's harder to do "bad" things. E.g. if the school fired someone for no reason, the other teachers could tell you. Always ask to talk to former teachers, preferably more than one to get different viewpoints.

2) More native teachers means more personalities. It could be difficult for larger groups to mesh well and cliques could form. But on the other hand if people get along, it's a larger variety of people to work with.

3) More native teachers generally means a larger school - which could be both good and bad. Good in that the school might be more financially stable, but bad in that you might be seen as expendable because there are many others to take your place.

I think it does play a factor in whether a school is a good one to work at but it depends on other factors (including your preferences). Don't take it as an indicator in itself.

I think a good indicator might be the change in foreign teachers. I was at a school that had ten before I arrived and 18 months later they had 14 teachers. They were obviously growing. Another thing to look at is how long the school has been going on. Schools with shady practices might not last for long (but that's not to say that new ones are bad and older ones are good, but it's a factor).

Honestly, the best thing to do is find out as much as you can about a school so you can make an informed decision. Just do a google search and see what you can see. Often bad schools have been reported on message boards. And if a school is wavering on giving you at least one contact (or even two) then that should start setting off alarm bells.

[southernman]

From people I've known that have worked fro a semi-large Hogwan with 5 foreign teachers it meant nothing, they just got newbies each year and treated the western teachers like dirt, this is a well known francise throughout Korea. It pretty much depends on each individual director

I was the only foreign teacher for my last 10 months at a howan I taught at for two years, after the other western teacher did a runner. It was great, I worked hard but I was totally left alone to do things my way. The role increased the kids were happy the director was happy and the parent's were happy.

It's basically luck of the draw as I've also known western teacher's that have gone to particular Hogwan's because another western techer said it was great only to find out the hogwan was hopeless. Maybe the first teacher just said good things to ensure they got their payout and airfare. That's what several of us concluded anyway

[Whitey Otez]

I'm about to say something controversial, and I expect a half dozen people to express a contrary view:

The guy that works as the only foreigner at a school is probably pretty antisocial.

I should know, I just did two years in isolation.

As for the number of teachers, I think it is less important. Things are different these days I hear, but when I first got here there were a lot of weirdos teaching the kids. A large group of teachers meant increasing odds that at least one of them will be pretty out there. The last time I had coworkers, two were nice and normal, and the fourth teacher had no boundaries at all. The weirdos cause drama for you and the school.
It only takes one teacher to bring the whole tent down.

[MarketFresh]

it all depends.
sometimes the less teachers the better, you get a lot more from your boss, favors and all, but some small schools end up closing fast. when there are a lot of teachers, it's usually more strict, no favors, but cuz of the big number it may be possible to get things such as longer holidays or so...
big chain schools, that's just a problem in itself, stay away.
do your research, ask around. Peace!

[ticktocktocktick]

Too many is a recipe for interpersonal disasters. I used to work at a hagwon with 22 waygooks. There were 14 when I started, after 2 months another 6 added to make 20, and then another 2 a few months later. 16 of us lived in the same small apartment building. It was a bit like a university dorm, but with seperate cooking facilites and bathrooms. At first it was great, a ready made social group. However, with 22 people come 22 personalities, and that increases your odds of a few strong/weird ones. As my year progressed, conflicts arose, and the atmosphere became tense. After a while, I didn't bother too much with most the people I worked with after a while, as it became so catty. Since most of us lived in the same small building, the atmosphere was taken home at the end of the day. After I left, some drama apparently exploded, and battle lines were drawn down the middle.

On the upside, the school was turning a healthy profit and we were always paid on time. And with so many foreigners to look after, the school knew what they were doing with immigration, bank accounts, and all those other little things foreigners need help with. They did drop the odd bollock, but generally we were treated well. They also weren't as concerned about losing kids, as there were plenty more. So little Yoo-sod could be disciplined without fear of his mother going bananas and bringing the whole place to it's knees.

Working at a big place might not be the worst thing if you're a newbie having trouble getting other jobs, but maybe 10-12ish might be a better number of foreigners.

[Ukon]

[lifeinkorea]

[hagwonnewbie]

I think a large academy is more likely to have someone to cover your shifts when you need to take a vacation. So that's important.

You'll also have more people to go out to dinner with after work. On the other hand you can almost be certain there will be at least one odd ball that will either get on your nerves or butt heads with you.

Man, some of the characters that come over here... This is the first work experience for a lot of the young teachers you'll meet. Plus, it being Korea and all...

Not an ideal work situation...

[VanIslander]

I had a wonderful six years at mom&pop small one-waygook teacher hagwons.

I am enjoying my 4-foreigner bigger hagwon now but there is now some office politics i have to ignore and there's a lack of the superstar, do-as-i-like atmosphere of a small hagwon where the only foreigner has fewer issues to deal with.

[Whitey Otez]