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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: Terrorism in Austin |
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html
Now, who did this? His note:
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If you�re reading this, you�re no doubt asking yourself, �Why did this have to happen?� The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn�t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless� especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I�m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was �no taxation without representation�. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a �crackpot�, traitor and worse.
While very few working people would say they haven�t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.
Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it�s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country�s leaders don�t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political �representatives� (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the �terrible health care problem�. It�s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don�t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.
And justice? You�ve got to be kidding!
How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly �holds accountable� its victims, claiming that they�re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law �requires� a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that�s not �duress� than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is. |
Alright. Read it all.
http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-insane-manifesto-2010-2 |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| While I agree with some of what he says about the current state of affairs, flying an airplane into an office building wasn't the best way to make a statement. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Who kills oneself over the tax code? Seriously, I know its bad, but . . . |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand his anger, but the fact that he'd endanger dozens of innocent lives and leave his family homeless (he burned his home down) to make this point makes me feel like he's a total lunatic.
The funny thing is, I remember some time ago a governmental report warning against increasing danger of right wing terrorist attacks, and said report was attacked and ridiculed as political posturing. And yet here we have an example of something the report in question warned of, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw more of it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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He seemed as angry at the Catholic Church and GM as he did at the IRS. Did anyone understand about the tax class he took?
While I have sympathy for his family, I have none for someone who flew his plane into a building trying to kill as many people as possible. In addition to the almost 200 IRS employees who were working, there must have been a couple hundred more people working in other offices plus any people off the street going about their business.
It's clearly a terrorist attack (a politically motivated attempt to kill lots of people). I find Senator Scott Brown's reaction peculiar--it's almost like he wants to make the attack about him and his election...or something. Odd. Video link:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/02/not_ready_for_prime_time.php#more?ref=fpblg |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| He seemed as angry at the Catholic Church and GM as he did at the IRS. |
We all have our own demons. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Scott Brown: soft on terror. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
I can understand his anger, but the fact that he'd endanger dozens of innocent lives and leave his family homeless (he burned his home down) to make this point makes me feel like he's a total lunatic.
The funny thing is, I remember some time ago a governmental report warning against increasing danger of right wing terrorist attacks, and said report was attacked and ridiculed as political posturing. And yet here we have an example of something the report in question warned of, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw more of it. |
Right wing?
| Quote: |
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. |
That sound right wing? |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
I can understand his anger, but the fact that he'd endanger dozens of innocent lives and leave his family homeless (he burned his home down) to make this point makes me feel like he's a total lunatic.
The funny thing is, I remember some time ago a governmental report warning against increasing danger of right wing terrorist attacks, and said report was attacked and ridiculed as political posturing. And yet here we have an example of something the report in question warned of, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw more of it. |
Right wing?
| Quote: |
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. |
That sound right wing? |
I totally knew when I read his full note earlier today that you were waiting for someone to bring up the right wing so you could post his last line.
That is all. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
I can understand his anger, but the fact that he'd endanger dozens of innocent lives and leave his family homeless (he burned his home down) to make this point makes me feel like he's a total lunatic.
The funny thing is, I remember some time ago a governmental report warning against increasing danger of right wing terrorist attacks, and said report was attacked and ridiculed as political posturing. And yet here we have an example of something the report in question warned of, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw more of it. |
Right wing?
| Quote: |
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. |
That sound right wing? |
It sounds just as right wing to me as, "Keep your government hands off of my Medicare," yes. Sure, it's stupid and confused, but that's hardly a unique phenomenon. This is especially true in concert with the other things he says. This, for instance:
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| We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was �no taxation without representation�. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a �crackpot�, traitor and worse. |
This is pure right wing, anti-governmental ranting. So is his equating of the tax code to totalitarianism. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, of course. Though I did expect ya-ta to roll in with Tea Bagger references. He's held back thus far. Olbermann hasn't given him his opinion yet, I reckon.
The argument that he is left-wing is as strong as the argument that he is right wing, or libertarian populist or productivist or simply alienated. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Yes, of course. Though I did expect ya-ta to roll in with Tea Bagger references. He's held back thus far. Olbermann hasn't given him his opinion yet, I reckon.
The argument that he is left-wing is as strong as the argument that he is right wing, or libertarian populist or productivist or simply alienated. |
Outside of the admittedly somewhat confusing quote at the end, I see very little here that could link him to real liberalism. He seems unhappy with corporate activity, true, but his proposed solution doesn't seem to be governmental involvement. It's very hard to be liberal and anti-government. One can be liberal and against individual governmental policies (as I often am), but his rant seems decidedly incompatible with progressive political thought, and decidedly compatible with right-wing political thought.
Honestly, the majority of his rant seems taken right out of a Tea Party rally, which is what spurred my original comment. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
It sounds just as right wing to me as, "Keep your government hands off of my Medicare," yes. Sure, it's stupid and confused, but that's hardly a unique phenomenon. This is especially true in concert with the other things he says. This, for instance:
| Quote: |
| We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was �no taxation without representation�. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a �crackpot�, traitor and worse. |
This is pure right wing, anti-governmental ranting. So is his equating of the tax code to totalitarianism. |
1) He wasn't stupid. He was violent and immoral.
2) The tax code is totalitarian IF it is used to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the masses. Which is it. So, he's correct. Not left, not right. Correct.
3) Anti-government ranting is not the exclusive domain of the right. You're aware, I assume, that left wing people are also prone to anti-government rantings. Maybe you've heard of the chap Noam Chomsky and his anarchist peers?
You want him to be right wing. It's just a virus in Americans. If you're left, then all bad must be right. If you're right, then all bad must be left. It is complete pollution and damn near exactly why the country won't improve. Left and right is a distraction. The elite are plundering.
| Quote: |
| It's very hard to be liberal and anti-government. |
If by "liberal" you mean "left" then no it isn't. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| 1) He wasn't stupid. He was violent and immoral. |
I think he was incredibly stupid. He's done a very good job of working against his own goals with this action. What do you call that except stupid?
| mises wrote: |
| 2) The tax code is totalitarian IF it is used to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the masses. Which is it. So, he's correct. Not left, not right. Correct. |
That's not the definition of totalitarian. It might be a good reason to condemn the tax system, but something being worthy of condemnation does not equate to it being totalitarian.
| mises wrote: |
| 3) Anti-government ranting is not the exclusive domain of the right. You're aware, I assume, that left wing people are also prone to anti-government rantings. Maybe you've heard of the chap Noam Chomsky and his anarchist peers? |
Anarchy and progressive political thinking are incompatible. You can't have a progressive government if there's no government to be progressive. Noam Chomsky and his ilk -- like certain Libertarians -- are good examples of situations where a two-dimensional political spectrum are insufficiently descriptive. When we start talking about them, we're not talking left or right anymore, we're talking another axis entirely. If you want to make the case that he should be out along one of those other axises, go ahead, but trying to label him a liberal is just silly.
| mises wrote: |
| You want him to be right wing. |
No, I don't mises. There are a number of predominantly conservative ideas I agree with and want to see come to pass. Tax code reform is one such example. Idiotic lunatics like this engaging in terrorist activities while openly linking said activities to such reforms only makes said reforms less likely to occur. This man has angered me with his actions. I would much prefer he had not been right wing, or left wing, or had any political motivation at all.
How often do I have to make it clear I'm not playing team sports for this to sink in? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I think he was incredibly stupid. He's done a very good job of working against his own goals with this action. What do you call that except stupid? |
His goal was to bring attention to his particular situation. He completely succeeded. He is now dead, and planned to be dead. His goal was to die and have people know his thoughts. Beyond that, his rantings are of a guy who has a sufficient grasp of the problems in the United States. He even tried to kill his family. This was the action of a guy who snapped and wanted the world to know why he snapped. Now we're talking about his thoughts.
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| That's not the definition of totalitarian. It might be a good reason to condemn the tax system, but something being worthy of condemnation does not equate to it being totalitarian. |
It's not your definition. The law is arbitrarily applied based upon political connections and income and at the same time incomprehensible (tax law). He also understood it to be a primary reason he was unable to make a proper living. He regarded that as totalitarian. Further, his quote about communism shows he isn't opposed completely to redistribution but to the redistribution as it exists. The right wing label doesn't work here. It just doesn't.
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| Anarchy and progressive political thinking are incompatible. |
Anarcho-syndicalism is both 1) progressive and 2) a system without government. Spend some time with the drum circle potheads and you'll see how alive and well anarchism is on the left.
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| trying to label him a liberal is just silly. |
As is trying to label him 'right'. Which is exactly why I said:
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| The argument that he is left-wing is as strong as the argument that he is right wing, or libertarian populist or productivist or simply alienated. |
So, don't be silly. It is clear he hated the government but it is not at all possible to establish that he hates the premise of government. That isn't anti-government, it is anti-American government.
What this guy did do was damage the political discourse further. He also will cause a decline in civil liberties. He also tried to murder his wife and kid, which will seriously harm them for life (suggesting a total lack of empathy). And he annoyed the hell out of me because now I have to argue Captain Obvious topics about his political orientation and if it was an "inside job", which the emails in my inbox insist it is. |
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