Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Toby]

What is the right thing and what is the wrong thing with this please?

I teach kindergarten through to middle school children and have done for the past three years in different places. I build good relationships with my children and generally have fun in the class, both educational and pure fun. It takes a little time for my children to learn my ways, but when they do, they know my limits and I know theirs. My door is ALWAYS open so that anyone can watch and to show that I have nothing to hide from anyone about anything.

If a kindergarten child climbs on your lap, either a male or a female student, and asks for you to either tickle them or make them laugh in anyway, is that wrong for a male teacher to encourage or allow it?

Sometimes I am physical with my students when I chase them, or if they hit me when we are playing, I will IMITATION WWF them or something similar. I know that this can be a fine line to walk down, but if the children are having fun and are enjoying the class as a whole, then is it wrong if no pain is inflicted or no child is remotely injured? If it is in context and the children are having fun, is it wrong for a male teacher to have physical contact with their students?

I am not a pervert. I enjoy my job and I love my children, or at least 80% of them. I create a good working environment and one the children enjoy coming to. Or at least my 99% attendance of the children would suggest that they enjoy coming, plus the fact that they fight to sit next to me when they come in.

Should I stop all contact, whatever it is, in case something could be misinterpreted by an over zealous parent? I think, if I had children, then I would trust the school and their judgement, but, as I don't have children, I can only speculate over that.

I am not asking for criticism about my style. I am asking what people think about male teachers and if they have a harder deal because they are male.

[spliff]

I like to play "horsey" with my kids. They sit on my lap and I move my mid-section like a horse. I was doing it just this morning and maybe around 20 parents were looking in the window.

[batman]

As a parent I would have to say there is no difference between what male teachers should and should not do with their students and what female teachers should and should not do.
If I were to walk into my son's class and see him being tickled by his teacher I would not be bothered (regardless if the teacher is male or female).
I think being physical with young students is an important part of the job.
Enjoy yourself. Enjoy your students. And don't worry too much.
The parents are probably happy that your students have a postive male role model in their lives.

When I worked at KC Hell I worked with two young (and too young) female teachers.
They were always trying to cop a kiss, a hug, a feel from their male students.
They were also always make suggestive comments about their middle school students.
Unacceptable (and rather disgusting) non-professional behaviour on their part.
The fact that they got away with so much for so long was probably due to the fact that they are female.
But that is another story.

[rapier]

The kids seem to crave attention here... they love hugs, wrestling, tickles etc. if you've got criers at your kindergarten, picking them up normally calms them.
However I'm aware that it can be seen as sort of unprofessional to have too much physical contact with them, so i'm careful especially when the parents or Koren teachers are around.
i actually think the kids play up just so you have to wrestle them into line. But then again, it can backfire if some kid is having a bad day and turns around and accuses you of hurting them...
So, just be careful, and keep a general distance most times.

Spliff, lose the avatar man, its making me sick.... if the person in the picture was a teacher, I'd pull my kids out on the spot....

[blair]

In Australia, as in many western countries, there is a "boy crisis" occuring. This because boys lack male role models. I, like all the othe Australian males I know and have ever known in my life, see this problem as a lack of common sense. Men have been hounded out of teaching by accusations which imply that because they like children they must be paedophiles. The average male in my country has a simple response to this. "No way am I going to teach kids".

So good for you mate. You have fun with the kids and let them have the opportunity to have another positive male influence in their life. Forget the stupidity that is going on in the "politically correct" world.

[spliff]

[Mr. Pink]

This is where I draw the line:

On guys: patting em on the arse (korean teachers do it though) anything else goes as far as I am concerned. (well kissing NEVER goes...)

On girls: Kisses, patting em on the arse, and frequent hugs. I don't mind goodbye hugs from the kiddies when they leave the hawgwon. I don't mind goodbye hugs from my highschoolers when they graduate.


Personally as a male teacher I feel uncomfortable with physical contact with my female students...since I teach high school...well I don't EVER want to be accused of being a pervert or molesting a kid. I know Korea is different, but you'd be surprised at some of the stories I have heard about perverted Korean male teachers touching the girls

[Danielos]

I teach kindergarten and elementry kids. It is important to have horse play with the kindergarten students. As another poster pointed out this play helps the kids learn boundaries. In addition it helps the kids burn off excess energy and can help them focus on learning english during other parts of the lesson.

[rapier]

I read somewhere that if an infant goes without physical contact for longer than 2 weeks, it loses the will to live and dies. believe it or not... kids have an absolute need to be picked up, carried, played with, fought with, and so on.
When I studied CELTA, we were familiarised with new concepts of teaching. One was that with young children, the classroom should mirror the home and family unit- because the natural way that children have learned since time immemorial has been in a secure, loving, supportive, environment. They need love and attention- as well as knowing their boundaries clearly from an authority figure. This involves a degree of physical contact with their parents/ teachers.

So long as your physical contact with your students, of whatever age, involves no sexual or abusive element, its ok. I think we all know where those boundaries lie.

[Juggertha]

i'm fine with it.. but I have my lines.

Kids under 13 are fair game. they get random hugs and the occasional kiss (even as a punishment). We wrestle and joke around alot.

When they get a little older.. it changes. I make sure that there are more definate lines. Occasionally children will try to cross them.

They are young and try to scope out their boundires. The young boys might try to choke you from behind (a no no) or the girls might try to sit a little too close to you. I make sure that at a certain age.. they know that some things are just not comfortable.

[tomato]

Hello, Toby!

I could be as wrong as wrong could be, but it seems to me that Korea doesn't have much of a problem with sexual abuse. If you look up pedophile in a Korean dictionary, you will see a big long definition instead of a single word.

Korean parents are unlikely to call you a perv because they don't know that there is such a thing as a perv. When I tell Koreans that parents in my own country don't like men who like kids, the Koreans look at me in amazement.

This is just theory, but I think that the Korean forefathers gave more thought to family roles than our forefathers did, and this careful thought tended to preclude sexual abuse.

Note the multiplicity of terms for relatives. If you asked me what to call your uncle, I would have to ask you whether he was really your uncle or your aunt's husband. Then I would have to ask you whether he was an uncle on your father's side or your mother's side. Then I would have to ask you whether he was your parent's older or younger brother. Then I would tell you I don't know.

Note, also, that Korean children aren't as inhibited about showing affection toward their kin. Children and parents walk down the street holding hands and no one says, "Oh, look at Oedipus and Jocasta!" Brothers and sisters walk down the street holding hands and no one says, "Oh, look at Siegmund and Sieglinde!"

A few miscellaneous items:

Girls older than preschool age may give a false impression of wanting to be kissed. I once tried to kiss an elementary school girl who was standing a millimeter away from me, so she never came close to me again.

I don't know why, but when I chase kids through the hallway, the adults yell "��! ������!" but they never confront me.

If I horseplay with the kids before class, they sometimes try to carry the game into the class. If they again call me a �ٺ� or a �丶��, I softly say, "No, silly time is over." That usually does the trick.

[Falstaff]

I think the big thing to remember is never be alone with a student behind closed doors, of either gender.

For elementary school kids, not only do I think physical contact is appropriate, I think it's necessary. Children have a need to be touched and reassured. Obviously any touch that is hurtful or lacivious in nature is wrong. But other than that, what's the big deal. All the examples I've heard posters give here (horsey, play wrestling, etc.) are fine.

Middle school is where it starts getting fuzzy. Some of your students will still be at the developmental level of elementary school kids and want that kind of touch and affection. Some will be maturing and very embarrased by any touch, or attention, from someone of the opposite sex. Here's a scenario that happens too often: Middle school student A has crush on teacher X, but doesn't know how to express herself, so she withdraws from any contact (verbal or physical). She won't even want teacher X to look at her. Teacher X chalks it up to hormones and lets her be, knowing she will deal with it in her own way (which is the correct response). Meanwhile, Student B is still in elementary school mode and gives teacher X a hug before and after every class. Now student A becomes upset at teacher X for giving another student the attention she desires, and becomes jealous of Student B for receiving that attention. Student A acts out (fighting with Student B, complaining about teacher X, etc.) Now what?

I think that if you are a good teacher, treat your students kindly and with affection, and never do or say anything that could be considered the least bit inappropriate, you'll be fine.

I teach High School. I wouldn't touch my female students if you paid me. I'll hug them when they graduate, maybe give them a high five if they do well. That's it.

[sadsac]

They crave a tactile element that is so lacking in western kids because of the restrictive rules palced on teachers in that society. I have great fun with my kids, as do so many other posters. It is just a matter of explaining the rules and then ensuring that everything is done within what you consider to be reasonable contact levels. I am a big guy and some of my middle school kids, boys not girls, take delight in poking me in the stomach, it gets tiring. The other night they wanted to take it to the next level and I encouraged them to take their best shot. It worked wonders and they are now different kids in my class. Middle school and high school girls, I have no interaction with them because of inferences that some narrow minded people may draw. Little kids though, bring them on, I love getting down on the floor and playing games with them. It makes the day worthwhile.

[Toby]

The situation only happened with kindergarten children. I teach one middle school boy, the remainder are all elementary or kindergarten.
The elder elementary girls are an area I do not go near as I know how they may feel awkward about it. The boys? We ruck.

Thanks for the advice. Good to hear.

[spliff]