|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: Gates wants vaccine to reduce population |
|
|
Can I be the one to choose which populations to reduce?
Analysis posted Mar 06 2010, 9:04 PM
Bill Gates talks about 'vaccines to reduce population'
by F. William Engdahl, Author of Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order
Microsoft founder and one of the world�s wealthiest men, Bill Gates, projects an image of a benign philanthropist using his billions via his (tax exempt) Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, to tackle diseases, solve food shortages in Africa and alleviate poverty. In a recent conference in California, Gates reveals a less public agenda of his philanthropy�population reduction, otherwise known as eugenics.
Gates made his remarks to the invitation-only Long Beach, California TED2010 Conference, in a speech titled, �Innovating to Zero!.� Along with the scientifically absurd proposition of reducing manmade CO2 emissions worldwide to zero by 2050, approximately four and a half minutes into the talk, Gates declares, "First we got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."
In plain English, one of the most powerful men in the world states clearly that he expects vaccines to be used to reduce population growth. When Bill Gates speaks about vaccines, he speaks with authority. In January 2010 at the elite Davos World Economic Forum, Gates announced his foundation would give $10 billion (circa �7.5 billion) over the next decade to develop and deliver new vaccines to children in the developing world. 2
The primary focus of his multi-billion dollar Gates Foundation is vaccinations, especially in Africa and other underdeveloped countries. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is a founding member of the GAVI Alliance (Global Alliance for Vaccinations and Immunization) in partnership with the World Bank, WHO and the vaccine industry. The goal of GAVI is to vaccinate every newborn child in the developing world.
Now that sounds like noble philanthropic work. The problem is that the vaccine industry has been repeatedly caught dumping dangerous�meaning unsafe because untested or proven harmful�vaccines onto unwitting Third World populations when they cannot get rid of the vaccines in the West. Some organizations have suggested that the true aim of the vaccinations is to make people sicker and even more susceptible to disease and premature death.
Dumping toxins on the Third World
In the aftermath of the most recent unnecessary Pandemic declaration of a global H1N1 swine flu emergency, industrial countries were left sitting on hundreds of millions of doses of untested vaccines. They decided to get rid of the embarrassing leftover drugs by handing them over to the WHO which in turn plans to dump them for free on select poor countries. France has given 91 million of the 94 million doses the Sarkozy government bought from the pharma giants; Britain gave 55 million of its 60 million doses. The story for Germany and Norway is similar.5
As Dr. Thomas Jefferson, an epidemiologist with the Cochrane Research Center in Rome noted, �Why do they give the vaccines to the developing countries at all? The pandemic has been called off in most parts of the world. The greatest threat in poor countries right now is heart and circulatory diseases while the virus figures at the bottom of the list. What is the medical reason for donating 180 million doses?� 6 As well, flu is a minor problem in countries with abundant sunshine, and it turned out that the feared H1N1 Pandemic �new great plague� was the mildest flu on record.
more at link |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When I read the Bill Gates quote the article writes out, my first thought is that he intends the reproductive services (i.e. birth control and education regarding its use) to be what reduces the rate of population increase (not reduce the population itself, mind you, simply the rate at which it's expanding in that area), while he intends the health services and vaccines to reduce the mortality rate of those who are actually born and help ensure they live better lives.
Let's get real. If incredibly wealthy men like Bill Gates wanted to simply kill people in the third world, he could do far better than slightly reducing the rate of population increase via tainted vaccines. He has the resources to do some serious damage, and the resources to cover up his complicity in that damage as well. But he doesn't, because he's not some sociopathic murderer, but rather simply a wealthy man trying to help as best he can.
As far as "Why donate the left-over vaccine to the third world?" goes, why not donate it? Swine flu might not be the horrific epidemic people were scared into thinking it was, but it's still by no means a pleasant experience, and just like the normal flu, it still does have the potential to kill elderly or young people who don't have access to proper medical care. Why not donate left-over vaccine to the third world? If they don't want it, they don't have to use it. It's not like we're going to fly around shooting them with vaccine darts out of air guns. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fox wrote: |
When I read the Bill Gates quote the article writes out, my first thought is that he intends the reproductive services (i.e. birth control and education regarding its use) to be what reduces the rate of population increase (not reduce the population itself, mind you, simply the rate at which it's expanding in that area), while he intends the health services and vaccines to reduce the mortality rate of those who are actually born and help ensure they live better lives. |
Yeah, that was my thinking too.
In the article's defense, I think the suggestion was that the trivia point about people reproducing less when healthier and better off was being used as a preemptive cover explanation for the more surefire reduced populations that would result from iatrogenic disease, sterility, or death.
The article's kind of misleading in that it gives off the impression that Gates was openly declaring he wanted to use vaccines to directly reduce the population (i.e. killing rather than gradually putting people in a healthier position to where they no longer want as many kids) when it later clarifies that vaccines have been observed to have that effect even though it's obviously being kept a secret if they are being used intentionally to that end.
Not that crazy of an idea though. Reminds me of that Holdren sterilant contamination quote (or if you want to be more specific, that quote from the book that Holdren was one of three authors of). The right wing may have put out a lot of wacky, hyperbolic claims about nothing, but that particular claim is a pretty straightforward confirmed case of population policy planning experts weighing out the pros and cons of contaminating either the water supply or staple foods with sterilants:
Quote: |
Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced.
If nobody will do it voluntarily or implement a program, then it will be forced to happen via large-scale wars over dwindling resources.
More people=more human suffering. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced. |
Why? Future population growth might be an issue if taken far enough, but the world's current population is totally sustainable. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fox wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced. |
Why? Future population growth might be an issue if taken far enough, but the world's current population is totally sustainable. |
Hardly: its placing too great a strain on the environment.
Sure if everyone on the planet was educated to practise sound environmentally-friendly policies in every place they lived then it would not be a problem. But thats not the case. Instead we see mostly unbridled environmental destruction across the globe because few are living sustainable lifestyles. Most new development in the burgeoning third-world economies is short-term and destructive, for example. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced.
If nobody will do it voluntarily or implement a program, then it will be forced to happen via large-scale wars over dwindling resources.
More people=more human suffering. |
Would you be willing to reduce the population through sterilants added to the water supply or staple foods of overpopulated third world regions? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kabrams

Joined: 15 Mar 2008 Location: your Dad's house
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Let's get real. If incredibly wealthy men like Bill Gates wanted to simply kill people in the third world, he could do far better than slightly reducing the rate of population increase via tainted vaccines |
For real. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nautilus wrote: |
Fox wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced. |
Why? Future population growth might be an issue if taken far enough, but the world's current population is totally sustainable. |
Hardly: its placing too great a strain on the environment.
Sure if everyone on the planet was educated to practise sound environmentally-friendly policies in every place they lived then it would not be a problem. But thats not the case. Instead we see mostly unbridled environmental destruction across the globe because few are living sustainable lifestyles. Most new development in the burgeoning third-world economies is short-term and destructive, for example. |
As you yourself point out, if a problem exists, it isn't population size, it's population behavior. The current population is totally sustainable. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fox wrote: |
As you yourself point out, if a problem exists, it isn't population size, it's population behavior. The current population is totally sustainable. |
Right.
But there are zero signs that humans will learn to stop harming their environment in time. Especially now as most people on the planet have become urbanised and estranged from how the natural world functions.
Certainly its plausible that future generations will have a greater knowledge and respect for it, but by the time that finally happens they will have trashed 99% of it anyway.
This is how the development cycle goes with practically every country.
a) Third world country lacks education, high living standards or sophisticated infrastructure, but is rich in resources, has healthy environment and ecosystems.
b) Said country sacrifices environment in order to get rich quick, often by overexploiting resource or damaging environment in unsustainable way. Quick profits take clear priority.
c) Country has now developed infrastructure and industry. It has paved over most of its natural heritage causing a few extinctions, poisoned rivers and irreversible environmentally damaging projects in the process.
d) Said country joins 1st world living standard. Gradually people become aware of the ecological crimes they have committed. Education gradually follows over the generations. However its too late to reconstruct all those destroyed natural environments. Those former forests have been cleared, those swamps have been drained and built on, those riverbanks have been concreted and dammed, that coastline has been reclaimed or fished out. People realise a healthy and natural environment is part of having a good quality of life, but its a little late. Population finally begins to drop as people place less emphasis on having 10 kids per family.
Korea btw is somewhere between "C" and "D". |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
djsmnc

Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
nautilus wrote: |
Fox wrote: |
As you yourself point out, if a problem exists, it isn't population size, it's population behavior. The current population is totally sustainable. |
Right.
But there are zero signs that humans will learn to stop harming their environment in time. Especially now as most people on the planet have become urbanised and estranged from how the natural world functions.
Certainly its plausible that future generations will have a greater knowledge and respect for it, but by the time that finally happens they will have trashed 99% of it anyway.
This is how the development cycle goes with practically every country.
a) Third world country lacks education, high living standards or sophisticated infrastructure, but is rich in resources, has healthy environment and ecosystems.
b) Said country sacrifices environment in order to get rich quick, often by overexploiting resource or damaging environment in unsustainable way. Quick profits take clear priority.
c) Country has now developed infrastructure and industry. It has paved over most of its natural heritage causing a few extinctions, poisoned rivers and irreversible environmentally damaging projects in the process.
d) Said country joins 1st world living standard. Gradually people become aware of the ecological crimes they have committed. Education gradually follows over the generations. However its too late to reconstruct all those destroyed natural environments. Those former forests have been cleared, those swamps have been drained and built on, those riverbanks have been concreted and dammed, that coastline has been reclaimed or fished out. People realise a healthy and natural environment is part of having a good quality of life, but its a little late. Population finally begins to drop as people place less emphasis on having 10 kids per family.
Korea btw is somewhere between "C" and "D". |
Well, I don't see you going out and starting a technology-free commune |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Goon-Yang
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Duh
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Humans are too stupid, lazy and greedy to care about the environment. Who cares right? It's not our problem. Let our grandkids deal with it, if the world is around that long;) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fox wrote: |
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced. |
Why? Future population growth might be an issue if taken far enough, but the world's current population is totally sustainable. |
Totally agree with you. Don't like all those dooms-sayers saying the earth is over populated. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Beeyee

Joined: 29 May 2007
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nautilus wrote: |
Obviously the global population needs to be reduced.
|
Would you be willing to be sterilized? How about your children? Would you wish it upon them? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005 Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
djsmnc wrote: |
Well, I don't see you going out and starting a technology-free commune |
Your understanding of environmentalism is primitive at best.
Nobody is the least bit interested in communes, tree-hugging or any other ridiculous stupidities used to charicature what you don't understand.
Nobody is against development per se. I want people to live better lives etc. However development can take place in a sustainable way that does not destroy forever vital ecosystems and biodiversity.
If you are a fisherman, do you catch all the fish one year and then starve the next because there are none left?
Of course not. You harvest a percentage, ideally older, mature fish that have already bred. You throw back juvenile fish. You don't fish at the species breeding grounds. Etc.
Simple principles that ensure there will still be a healthy population of fish for people to harvest for generations to come.
The same basic principle of sustainability goes for countless other examples where development should be properly planned.
The lethal effects of e.g hurrican katrina are an example of how unplanned and poor development without regard to the environment caused tragedy. Naturally that coastline was formerly protected by vast swamplands which acted as a sponge, a buffer which drained and held floodwaters. But those swamps have been drained and dyked for housing projects. Thus its no surprise new orleans area got devastated. It had removed natures natural defences which would have coped.
The list is endless. Humankind has to realise that natures ecosystems protect us and maintain our earth. If we are going to damage and tamper with them first we have to absolutely understand how they work and what the long-term effects are. Instead of rushed, greedy exploitation for quick profits. If we do things properly, its entirely possible for societies to develop while also preserving nature. Its not "one or the other". This is my point. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|