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Is Meditation that beneficial
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Keepongoing



Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Is Meditation that beneficial Reply with quote

I have thought about meditation often and read up on it, but have not really practiced it. From what I have read it is great for relaxing and lowering stress levels. During the semester, I seem to get quite stressed out. I know this because when I am on holiday, after about two weeks, I feel so much calmer.

What I would like to hear about is your experience with it. How has it helped you? How do you do it?

Not so and anymore, but I use to just drink a lot or get lost on the internet and neither thing is constructive and only exacerbates existing issues.

I do not want to go in a religious route where meditation is centered on religious thought. I think, from what I have read, that I would do well with a form of mindfulness. I read Eckart Tolle's, "The Power of Now" a few times and really like it.

Ideally, I would like to take a class on it where I could get some support and be around like minded people.

I can be really impatient, and like weight lifting, it can not happen overnight.

Look forward to hearing your stories
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Gibberish



Joined: 29 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

If you want to get less stressed out, it's all within your ability to simply *not* get stressed out thanks to the strength of your own mind at the time, no meditation needed.
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UknowsI



Joined: 16 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

When it comes to physical problems I pretty much agree that peudo-meta-medicine is of little use. But this is mostly about mental state, and what is mental state except for thinking? Actually you even mention it yourself, that they got calmed down. This in itself can be a benefit.

I have never tried meditation and I don't know if it works or not, but I wont dismiss the possibility that it can help someones mental state and stress level.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meditation is amazing if you find the techniques that are suited for you. Most important thing is to do it for many years. At first it can bring up some bad feelings but if one keeps going it gets better and better until you feel so good some days you coundn't believe someone could feel that good.

Tolle's book is a water downed version of some teachings from India and Buddism. If you really like the living in the moment stuff I suggest reading some books by Ramana Marharshi or a book called "I am That". There is a website called nevernothere.com that has many modern day teachers. Watch the ones with a teacher called Isaac Shapiro as he is a very good modern day teacher that I have known for many years and I know many people that he has helped.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

If you want to get less stressed out, it's all within your ability to simply *not* get stressed out thanks to the strength of your own mind at the time, no meditation needed.



hahahahahah what an idiot. never been to China but tells everyone about it. Never eaten chocolate but tells everyone how bad it tastes. Never experienced much meditation but has a comment against it. People who are stuck in a small part of their brain tend to judge things beyond that as having no benefit or being pseudo science. Just goes to show the less people know the more they think they know. Arrogance is a funny thing and makes any meditator who has taken time to develop their brain laugh at people who denounce it when it's obvious they know nothing.
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detourne_me



Joined: 26 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

his posts are true to his user name.

meditation isn't exactly constructive, but it will indirectly improve your determination, discipline and confidence.
I used to meditate quite a bit throughout my previous years of martial arts training (about 10 years total)
I never looked toward enlightenment but used meditation as a tool to control myself.

You don't really need classes, but they could help. The important things to remember are posture and focusing on your breathing - as long as you stay focused on maintaining a proper position and rhythm the rest will fall into place, and boring hours of desk-warming will dissipate into nothing.
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Gibberish



Joined: 29 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you guys ever heard of James Randi?

I didn't think so.

All I'm saying is that sitting there with your eyes closed and remaining calm is about as useful as touch therapy or healing light. It's bull. You get stressed because you lack willpower and you're weak. That's all there is to it. You can achieve the same "benefits" of meditation in real time without having to sit down cross legged in the dark just by simply accepting what life throws at you without any conflict. Meditation and its practice are for the weak minded.

And for the record, I've done yoga for many years, and while I like the exercise factor of it, when the classes get down to the meditation aspect, I roll my eyes and sit back. I know it's a joke, so don't tell me about not knowing anything about meditation, because I probably know a LOT more than you on the subject. And I'm much happier and calm/content than just about anyone I know, but that's because I am just of stronger mind than others, apparently.
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Street Magic



Joined: 23 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

If you want to get less stressed out, it's all within your ability to simply *not* get stressed out thanks to the strength of your own mind at the time, no meditation needed.


My rebuttal to that is basically this:

Keepongoing wrote:
I can be really impatient, and like weight lifting, it can not happen overnight.


Some people might be born gifted with exceptional calm and self-awareness, but a lot of (if not most) people just aren't that great at it and need to make a conscious effort over a long period of time to develop those skills.

Regarding the validity of more tangible effects, the reason most drugs work isn't because they're creating the experiences or benefits directly. Most drugs work by cajoling the brain into altering the proportions of the same chemicals it's always making. I think you're right in calling the prerequisite for the more tangible benefits "relaxation," but the problem is most people's sense of relaxation is akin to my capacity for lifting weights-- a feeble and fruitless endeavor in the immediate sense limited by the lack of will to make progress in the long term.

Anyway, here's a pretty solid well documented phenomenon of meditation:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

Quote:
During visits to remote monasteries in the 1980s, Benson and his team studied monks living in the Himalayan Mountains who could, by g Tum-mo meditation, raise the temperatures of their fingers and toes by as much as 17 degrees. It has yet to be determined how the monks are able to generate such heat.

The researchers also made measurements on practitioners of other forms of advanced meditation in Sikkim, India. They were astonished to find that these monks could lower their metabolism by 64 percent. "It was an astounding, breathtaking [no pun intended] result," Benson exclaims.

To put that decrease in perspective, metabolism, or oxygen consumption, drops only 10-15 percent in sleep and about 17 percent during simple meditation. Benson believes that such a capability could be useful for space travel. Travelers might use meditation to ease stress and oxygen consumption on long flights to other planets.


And as I alluded to before, most "meditators" aren't adept at the process any more than most dudes with a couple free weights at home are professional bodybuilders:

Quote:
Some Westerners practice g Tum-mo, but it often takes years to reach states like those achieved by Buddhist monks. In trying to find groups he could study, Benson met Westerners who claimed to have mastered such advanced techniques, but who were, in his words, "fraudulent."


So to sum up my stance on the benefits, I think if you're the hardcore disciplined type like professional bodybuilders are in their respective craft then you stand to gain control over a number of processes we normally think of as involuntary (temperature, metabolism, dream states, heart rate, etc.). Most people aren't this type though and are probably unlikely to commit to that kind of long term process properly.
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detourne_me



Joined: 26 May 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
Have you guys ever heard of James Randi?

I didn't think so.


y'know name-dropping someone really obscure that no one knows or cares about and has no influence on our lives doesn't really strengthen your point.

people like eckhart tolle, deepak chopra and the dalai lama on the other hand ...

that's all moot though.
the OP wants to know about the benefits of meditation for lowering stress levels - not about a spiritual journey.
You find the physical benefits of practicing yoga to be true, why not accept that there are some mental benefits as well. Perhaps people need the mental exercise to exert their own willpower.
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Gibberish



Joined: 29 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, admitting you don't know who the world's most famous skeptic is, way to go.

And for my last word on the subject, and then I'll move on, is just that it takes literally 0 effort to remain calm in your life. Mental strength is an effortless pursuit, I just can't understand why anyone would say that it's hard to stay calm and content in their lives. Meditating is too much work. Maybe, I guess, too many people take everything far too personal? If so, I feel sorry for you. Or wait, no I don't, because I don't care. Maybe you shouldn't either.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After many years of practice and helping people I can attest to the fact that over 90% of physical problems and sickness in the body comes from the brains inabilty to process information. If you find the right meditation practice it will increase your abilty to process information thus solving many physical problems. It's all about blood flow to different parts of the brain and meditation can increase flow to parts of the brain that make you smarter and more caring, or you can not meditate and have most blood flow going to the lower animalistic parts of your brain.

Gibberish sorry to see that you started on the path and gave up and became synical. Get back out there and try some different approaches because it is obvious you haven't reached the benefits yet. Just because you have tried doesn't make you an expert. Just like many people who play a sport doesn't mean they make it to the professional level. You started out and are still an amateur and are giving answers from your lesser parts of your brain. Keep going and in a few years you will laugh at your posts here. You just haven't found the techinque that is right for you.
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

If you want to get less stressed out, it's all within your ability to simply *not* get stressed out thanks to the strength of your own mind at the time, no meditation needed.


Just becuase it doesn't work for you, or you don't believe it works, doesn't mean it doesn't work...

IT does work! and its VERY REAL! it has been verified and documented by thousands of people, and also there is countless testimonial evidence which supports it..

most people who have tried it said it worked...

ohh and dont bring RANDI into this ok...
meditation doesn't need to be debated becuase its FACT that it works!
its been around for thousands of years! HUMANS have been meditating for thousands of years and reaping its benefits! that just proves that humans are benefitting from it..
Don't you think if it didnt work humans wouldnt spend hours doing it!

but when you enter the meditating process skeptic of course its not going to work for you DUH!!!
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Street Magic



Joined: 23 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
Have you guys ever heard of James Randi?


Regarding meditation, James Randi focused on debunking the notoriously corrupt Maharishi Foundation's Transcendental Meditation technique.

Randi re: TM--

James Randi wrote:
No levitation, no walking through walls, no invisibility.


Really? You mean I can't teach myself how to invisibly fly through walls? Your enlightened rationalism has totally shattered my previous faulty worldview.

Anyway, if Randi can take obviously BS claims of levitation and invisibility seriously enough to properly investigate and debunk them, then I think you could reasonably consider the possibility that a Harvard Gazette story covering the conscious control of body temperature and metabolism might be legit enough to take a closer look at. The flippant "I don't care, I don't have problems relaxing so there's no reason why anyone else should" attitude is about the furthest thing from skepticism, so I don't know why you'd want to bring Randi up.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibberish wrote:
There's no benefit to meditation, just like all pseudo-meta-medical practice, because all it is is just thinking. Anyone who tells you it helped them in some way just got over whatever they were dealing with by calming down.

If you want to get less stressed out, it's all within your ability to simply *not* get stressed out thanks to the strength of your own mind at the time, no meditation needed.

Of course it's just thinking. That's the whole point. Why do you think placebo drugs work?
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CapnSamwise



Joined: 11 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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