|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: from Korea Times - Call Girl Natalia |
 |
|
here's the link:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/03/182_62246.html
this very short article about ex call girl Natalia's book should effectively shatter the very oft used and tired arguments on the part of some moralists on this forum about how it's never a woman's choice to enter or stay in the world of prostitution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
I suppose I should just take your word for it?
isn't Angeles, on what used to be an old US airbase?
wouldn't that make for a more logical explanation of such barbed wire, if in fact exists?
and what you say about BKK bargirls is nonsense. They regularly go back home to buy a new water buffalo or give their gambling alkie father some money for drinking and gambling. Then they look for another idiot farang to send them money (usually for mother in hospital or a variant of such)
If you're truly alarmed by potential kidnappings and beating and other forms of coercion you'll be better served by visiting all the Thai brothels for purely domestic consumption. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Take a long, long holiday in Pattaya, Thailand. Don't lie on the beach, but sit on the benches on Beach Road. After a while, you'll blend in, and you'll start to notice what's really going on.
Most of the 'independent' prostitutes on Beach Road are run by their 'boyfriends,' thug-like gangsters, or innocent looking old Thai women and men. If you don't believe this, just take a prostitute to a short-time room (or your hotel) and don't pay. That will get you a visit from the guy who's forcing her to be a prostitute. Good luck with that (you'd better hope he's had his yabba fix that day).
And, for all the 'real' independents in Pattaya, who you think aren't being coersed into prostitution, ask them who told them to go to Pattaya and get money for their family. Who has socialised them from birth to "take care of their parents" - and then given them no financial opportunities to achieve this.
And ask a bar girl - what happens when she doesn't meet her monthly bar-fine quota - she is fined by the bar and she has her wages docked.
What about the pedophiles who are caught in Thailand? - Do you think the children who service them aren't forced into prostitution? Come on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: from Korea Times - Call Girl Natalia |
|
|
| Cerberus wrote: |
here's the link:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/03/182_62246.html
this very short article about ex call girl Natalia's book should effectively shatter the very oft used and tired arguments on the part of some moralists on this forum about how it's never a woman's choice to enter or stay in the world of prostitution. |
Could you link us to these posts where it was claimed that women never enter the world of prostitution of their own volition? I don't recall them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oldfatfarang wrote: |
Take a long, long holiday in Pattaya, Thailand. Don't lie on the beach, but sit on the benches on Beach Road. After a while, you'll blend in, and you'll start to notice what's really going on.
Most of the 'independent' prostitutes on Beach Road are run by their 'boyfriends,' thug-like gangsters, or innocent looking old Thai women and men. If you don't believe this, just take a prostitute to a short-time room (or your hotel) and don't pay. That will get you a visit from the guy who's forcing her to be a prostitute. Good luck with that (you'd better hope he's had his yabba fix that day).
And, for all the 'real' independents in Pattaya, who you think aren't being coersed into prostitution, ask them who told them to go to Pattaya and get money for their family. Who has socialised them from birth to "take care of their parents" - and then given them no financial opportunities to achieve this.
And ask a bar girl - what happens when she doesn't meet her monthly bar-fine quota - she is fined by the bar and she has her wages docked.
What about the pedophiles who are caught in Thailand? - Do you think the children who service them aren't forced into prostitution? Come on. |
I'd rather not. I quite dislike Pattaya, and that's putting it mildly.
I also didn't claim that no coercion or some coercion, etcn never existed.
the take care of parents/etc line - well if that's the case who's exactly to blame for that one?
from www.globalpost.com
November 23, 2009 08:27 ET
French Culture Minister scandal: The sex workers' perspective
As I posted recently, Bangkok's red-light nightlife is often depicted by writers with lurid imaginations.
For the gullible high school boys, there's a cartoonishly inaccurate Maxim article that tells readers of a "child bride" who'll titilate and strangle you for $300. For the moralizers, a story from The Oklahoman imagines that every woman in the trade is a "sex slave" waiting to be rescued and "freed" by a Christian missionary. Both perspectives are as condescending as they are absurd.
But seldom do readers hear from the women and men who actually work in this imagined, neon-soaked, pulp fiction netherworld.
That's why I was surprised to find this statement from the Asia-Pacific Network of Sex Workers. It's their response to the firestorm started by French Culture Minister Frederic Mitterrand, whose autobiography details his lusty fixations on "young boys" working in the prostitution "slave market" in Bangkok.
"All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market, excite me enormously," he wrote.
Now, I don't have his book around the house, so I'm pulling these excerpts from U.K. news outlets. And in fairness, the book is a bit of a confessional. Still, I'm struggling to imagine a context that would redeem that particular line of prose.
In his defense, Mitterrand, who is 62, later insisted that "boy" is a euphemism that can apply even to men in their 60s � and possibly even jowelly culture ministers.
Back to the sex workers' association. I'm going to post their take on the scandal in full. It reads like a group statement, though it's signed by "Khun Chutchai," who is likely Chutchai Kongmont, one of the group's leaders.
Read until the end for the surprise dig at French colonials.
It has come to our attention that [there] is still continuing debate around the issue of the French Culture Minister, Frederic Mitterrand, and his admission that he paid for sex with male sex workers in Thailand. We have seen attacks on him from both the left and the right of French politics � attacks which we see as both homophobic and anti-sex worker.
Worse we see the racist, orientalist views of the elites on both sides of French politics who construct Thai sex workers as somehow �backward� and unable to choose what we do. In Thailand all male sex workers are referred to by the term �Nong� which means boy. We are not duped under age boys forced into �sexual slavery.� We are people in a poor country exercising our choices to live and earn money to support ourselves, our family and our country.
The money we earn and send home to the rural areas of Thailand is far larger than any international development programme and supports far more people.
Tourism to Thailand is our country�s second biggest industry � and people have sex on holidays. Are they meant to be celibate? Is it now unacceptable for Europeans to have sex with Asians in case they are exploiting us? If French politicians are so concerned about our exploitation they would do better to support labour laws for sex workers and to push the ILO to recognise sex work as work.
When and until the parties of the Left and the Right of French politics agree to substantially increase development aid to redistribute the wealth that France and other former colonial countries stole from the developing world, we would appreciate it if you keep sending us your tourists so that we can show them a good time and get some of your hard won cash. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nice friday afternoon troll. Well done that man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: from Korea Times - Call Girl Natalia |
|
|
| Cerberus wrote: |
here's the link:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/03/182_62246.html
this very short article about ex call girl Natalia's book should effectively shatter the very oft used and tired arguments on the part of some moralists on this forum about how it's never a woman's choice to enter or stay in the world of prostitution. |
The world is overripe with propaganda. It enters the pores and permeates our easily taxed brains. We often can't distinguish the deception from the reality. It's the context that creates choices and it depends on what the choices are and how much better they are. Sometimes successful people in western countries "choose" to become homeless because the choices don't satisfy their eccentricities and unusual sense of individuality. Prostitution for some is an act of outrage, rebellion from the repressed and intellectually deadening status quo. This in no way supports nor advocates prostitution as a legitimate lifestyle. What it probably does acknowledge is the deep need for people to accept the greed and mental and physical lassitude that accompanies the choice within the context of this troublesome ideology called capitalism. So what does choice really entail, after all? For most people, it doesn't say a hell of a lot about them. Or maybe too much. It's just a childish phrase we can't let go of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: Re: from Korea Times - Call Girl Natalia |
|
|
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| What it probably does acknowledge is the deep need for people to accept the greed and mental and physical lassitude that accompanies the choice within the context of this troublesome ideology called capitalism. |
The Thai economy is hardly the freest in the world. As such, prostitution is a reflection of the lack of opportunity for women necessitated not only by an unfree economy but also by a culture mired permanently in a state of fatuous vulgarity. On the other hand, an equally plausible economic analysis might be that prostutition is Thailand's niche in the global specialization of labor, particularly catering to extremely crude individuals. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
peppero
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
i totally call bullshit on this one! i've seen some of the girls there.... NONE of them look tortured and they are free to leave anytime, but they keep coming back.... i sincerely hope you're not one of those "moralizers" on this site. a woman and/or man has every right to be a prostitute if they so please... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| peppero wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
i totally call bullshit on this one! i've seen some of the girls there.... NONE of them look tortured and they are free to leave anytime, but they keep coming back.... i sincerely hope you're not one of those "moralizers" on this site. a woman and/or man has every right to be a prostitute if they so please... |
If a woman (or man) could make the same money doing a job that didn't involve selling sex, do you think they'd still continue to sell sex?
I have no position on this issue, I just want to know what you think. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kabrams wrote: |
| peppero wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
i totally call bullshit on this one! i've seen some of the girls there.... NONE of them look tortured and they are free to leave anytime, but they keep coming back.... i sincerely hope you're not one of those "moralizers" on this site. a woman and/or man has every right to be a prostitute if they so please... |
If a woman (or man) could make the same money doing a job that didn't involve selling sex, do you think they'd still continue to sell sex?
I have no position on this issue, I just want to know what you think. |
I would if the customers were all hot females, but that's not reality of course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| djsmnc wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
| peppero wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
i totally call bullshit on this one! i've seen some of the girls there.... NONE of them look tortured and they are free to leave anytime, but they keep coming back.... i sincerely hope you're not one of those "moralizers" on this site. a woman and/or man has every right to be a prostitute if they so please... |
If a woman (or man) could make the same money doing a job that didn't involve selling sex, do you think they'd still continue to sell sex?
I have no position on this issue, I just want to know what you think. |
I would if the customers were all hot females, but that's not reality of course. |
Yeah, more like fat old creeper dudes in Hawaiian shirts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kabrams wrote: |
| peppero wrote: |
| Fishead soup wrote: |
| I guess you are not aware of the Electrified, Barbed, wire fence, that surrounds the parimeter of Angelis City in the Phillipines. Or the fact that 90% of the Go Go dancers in Nana Plaza were just innocent Buddhist girls who were kidnapped, and tortured to do the job. |
i totally call bullshit on this one! i've seen some of the girls there.... NONE of them look tortured and they are free to leave anytime, but they keep coming back.... i sincerely hope you're not one of those "moralizers" on this site. a woman and/or man has every right to be a prostitute if they so please... |
If a woman (or man) could make the same money doing a job that didn't involve selling sex, do you think they'd still continue to sell sex?
I have no position on this issue, I just want to know what you think. |
if they could cherrypick their clientele (like health insurance companies do for e..g), then I'd say ... very possibly YES.
and there are a very few really attractive women who are able to do precisely that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kabrams wrote: |
If a woman (or man) could make the same money doing a job that didn't involve selling sex, do you think they'd still continue to sell sex?
I have no position on this issue, I just want to know what you think. |
One Thai woman once told me that the reason there are so many women in the trade in Thailand and other South East Asian countries is a confluence of their love of sex and the influence of the climate. When she told me this, I thought she was trying to tell me something I wanted to hear, which is the Thai way, but it's an interesting theory anyways. Many Thai women have refined interesting techniques to mollify horny customers whom the girls don't find attractive and still get them to pay up. It's a fascinating piece of ethnosexual detail that deserves some serious research. I've actually walked into brothels, paid the price of admission and just talked to the girls out of sheer curiosity. Yes, I can speak the lingo, but many could also speak English quite well. The stories are both heartbreaking and BS, and it requires a fine sense of the ridiculous to distinguish between the two. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
