Korean Job Discussion Forums

[lilith63]

I am a mature ESL Teacher with several years experience and TESOL certification, but was rejected by two recruiting companies with no explanation. One was Reach to Teach and I just happen to go out on their FB page after their rejection and find that other mature teachers with many years of experience were complaining of the same thing.

After some googling I have discovered this to be quite a problem in South Korea even though there was a law passed in March of 2009 against age discrimination with a fine to the employer of $32,000 if found guilty. However, it seems the employers have found a back door through recruiting agencies.

Are there any other mature teachers on this forum and have you been discriminated against due to your age? I'm very curious and thinking of writing the labour Board.

[the ireland]

write away, the labour board can't do anything as the recruiter is not the person who hires you, they just find the job. It might be different if you were to haver an interview with a school and then not get it, but I seriously doubt the labour board would care.

Don't you think it's better to know they are not looking for a job for you, allowing you to keep searching, rather than lying to you and letting you believe they are trying to find a position??

[ttompatz]

Looking at your user name I would be guessing that either:

a) you were born in 63 (you would have a case if you were Korean)
b) you are 63 years of age or older in which case you have no case (mandatory retirement age is 62).

I would also guess from the tone of your post that you are American and expect the rule of law to apply here (it usually doesn't)

and that litigation is a means to an end (it isn't).

Age and racial discrimination are common, tolerated and in many cases legal throughout most of Asia.

Be thankful that you found out now rather than wait and wait and wait....

Find another recruiter who will work with you and try to find you a position (they can be found but take some patience and digging)

or

pick another country (like China) where age is less of an issue because of high demand. You are also less likely to be required to teach kids or work ugly split shifts that are common in adult hakwons in Korea.

There are jobs in China there that have a net pay that is the same as or greater than Korea because of the difference in the cost of living and the all inclusive housing (no utility or other fees as well as rent free).

.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Tough spot but this has been happening to varying degrees for years.

Writing the Labor Board will do you no good as you are not currently employer in Korea by an employer that is cheating you....

You are dealing with recruiters who in essence are middle men that match applicants with jobs. What you need to do instead of considering writing a complaint is to expand your search to other recruiters and to schools directly. You may need to simply accept that your age will make it harder to land a job and that it may take longer.

Fort he record, I know many people in their late 40s, or 50s who found work in Korea.

Good luck.

[Rteacher]

As noted in an earlier post, 62 is the mandatory retirement age for public school teachers in Korea, and that apparently also applies to foreigners working under government-sponsored contracts like GEPIC and EPIC. Last time I checked, their guidelines for new hires require that they be under 55.

In my case, the privately-owned high school that I had worked at for five years was not allowed (by GEPIC or Gyeonggi province officials) to sign me to another contract because I would be turning 61 this May, which equals 62 in Korean years.

A few recruiters (out of the many I tried) really did try to place me - and I did get an interview through one - but it seemed that (after eight years here) I couldn't find work anymore in Korea.

I kept trying though, and on the very last day before my visa expired I was hired directly by a private school who'd advertised (on Dave's Job Board) their need for an experienced teacher already in Korea.

[nautilus]

Isn't it wrong that one spends all those years gaining expertise and qualifications...only to be denied the chance to use them?

[tomato]

I'm 61.
I finally got a job yesterday, after almost a month of full-time searching.
I got a letter from Jessica at [email protected] saying that I was "not a good match."
She didn't say why.
Most of the agencies just ignored me.

[nautilus]

[PatrickGHBusan]

[Chambertin]

I think the reality is that in this industry more than others it is more desirable to get moldable fresh meat.

The idea of someone who knows what they are doing, or has some idea of what needs to be done is not always desirable in any industry.

Consider the difficulty in [discovering] a job not just a trial of will, as in do you really want to do this, but also a fantastic way of weeding out the BS jobs who only want a pretty person to fill a chair.

Employment is odd. No one wants the truly young or the old. You should have 5 years experience or just quit looking for a job.
So in other words that�s why no one sticks around long enough to learn anything anymore.

[snowgoose]

No doubt there IS age discrimination going on here. But that applies to Koreans a lot more. Your age is a very important factor and being too old, and getting too old for a particular job or field is something people worry about I think, because they know that's the way things work here.

OP - in case you haven't noticed, everything else about a person, not just age, but sex (being female used to be, not so much now, a big, big plus if you were a Westerner), race and looks (if you look good or not, and also looking like a "typical" Westerner/Caucasian, rather than black, Indian, Asian etc.). For example, being hugely fat could put you behind a bunch of other more normal looking candidates. Also, accent - but to some extent you can understand this. There really are some people I've met with thick Irish or South African etc. accents whom other English speakers can barely understand. I mean, turn it around, and how many foreigners would want to learn Korean off somebody with a remote rural accent average Koreans have a hard time understanding? Maybe it's okay when they get to a certain advanced level, but at lower levels, pronunciation will just be that much more horrible.

In fact, Koreans discriminate WAY more against other Koreans who are say, fat or ugly or bald or old or short or from some country area or... any number of things!

Remember, once upon a time it was legal and common in the US to discriminate openly based on race - like, "no coloreds served here" etc.

[Sadebugo1]

[The Bobster]

Last couple of jobs I've had, I was not only older than my supervisor, I had also been working in the ESL field, and teaching Korean kids longer. There's a temptation to point this out when they try to tell you how to do your job. It doesn't work, obviously.

I know something about the conflicts that come with a Confucianist mindset - I'm older so I deserve respect, and I know more, so that should be respected too ... but I'm in a subordinate position in the hierarchy, so that means another kind of behavior.

Knowing about these conflicting positions gives me compassion for the people who have to live inside of them - it doesn't make their behavior more enjoyable, though. The best reaction I've come up with is to smile, nod, act like you think they have a point worth listening to, then go ahead do what you know how to do.

(Don't even talk about recruiters, they suddenly get scarce when they see your picture. Recruiters are bogus, completely so. Never had a one of them ask me a single thing related to education. Have you?)

No worries, though. These days I'm completely freelance and I have to turn jobs down. Luckily, I'm F-visa. I can do this. They should change the laws so you don't have to be married to own your right to work where, when and how much you want. (Other countries do things differently, but other countries don't buy your plane ticket and give you a free apartment, and that's part of why you chose to come here instead.)

It doesn't stop, though. I have to deal with parents who think they know something about education. It's good when parents take an interest, but I want to say, "Look, I've been teaching ESL longer than you have been a parent, longer than you've had a college degree. I really DO know how to do this, and that's why you're paying me so much."

Sometimes I actually DO say it. It shuts them up. I think it might be what a Korean teacher would say, but with different grammar.

Chambertin

[languistic]

[lilith63]

I'm 46 but I have been told by many I look anywhere from 25 to 32 (on datin sites I get more twenty somethings than mature men respond...but I teach all day, I don't want to go home and teach too). I work out. I don't smoke or go drinking all night long. I'm not here to chase women, or men and I am constantly reading up on new methods or theories of teaching ESL. I take this seriously and I love doing it.

According to ttom and ireland I should apparently shut up and accept the ways of the world. I'm not submissive, nor passive particularly when it comes to making a living. Your advice to just accept things as they are is disappointing. And yes, I am an American and a radical feminist...I fight for my rights, I don't just accept them. Neither should you.

The advice with only a few exceptions is disappointing. Thank goodness I already have a job. Was only concerned for those who have experience, take the job seriously and deserve a good paying position...my mature colleagues.