|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
 |
|
I was reading an article and came across this line: "It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent."
I only vaguely remember when Ike was president, but I do know the economy was doing pretty good in the 50's (at least the recession was mild), corporations were not packing up American jobs and moving overseas, millionaires were still being created, the interstate system was being build, all sorts of dams were being put up, people who'd never had indoor toilets were getting them. In short, even at 90% the rich were still working hard and not bailing out. It's a fallacy that high tax rates destroy the desire to work--if anything, it just frustrates 'em and makes them work harder. (It's low income that destroys the will to work.) As someone said, 'Greed is good' and it's an unsatisfiable hunger--just look at Wall Street bankers and brokers if you don't believe that.
The article I was reading was about the recent tax hike in Oregon. Corporations were paying just $10 a year. Maybe 90% is a bit of a stretch, but there's a lot of negotiating room between $10 and 90% isn't there? The wealthiest 3% had their taxes raised 1.8%. That's not exactly confiscatory.
Just imagine 90%. Those deficits would start to disappear pretty darn fast, wouldn't they? Even if after all the crying, whining and compromises to keep the selfish from pouting, even 75% would do a lot. Let's harness that greed for the common good. We could even hold a ceremony and give the biggest tax payers a ribbon and a TV special.
Think about it.
True Populism
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/523484/true_populism |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading an article and came across this line: "It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent."
I only vaguely remember when Ike was president, but I do know the economy was doing pretty good in the 50's (at least the recession was mild), corporations were not packing up American jobs and moving overseas, millionaires were still being created, the interstate system was being build, all sorts of dams were being put up, people who'd never had indoor toilets were getting them. In short, even at 90% the rich were still working hard and not bailing out. It's a fallacy that high tax rates destroy the desire to work--if anything, it just frustrates 'em and makes them work harder. (It's low income that destroys the will to work.) As someone said, 'Greed is good' and it's an unsatisfiable hunger--just look at Wall Street bankers and brokers if you don't believe that.
The article I was reading was about the recent tax hike in Oregon. Corporations were paying just $10 a year. Maybe 90% is a bit of a stretch, but there's a lot of negotiating room between $10 and 90% isn't there? The wealthiest 3% had their taxes raised 1.8%. That's not exactly confiscatory.
Just imagine 90%. Those deficits would start to disappear pretty darn fast, wouldn't they? Even if after all the crying, whining and compromises to keep the selfish from pouting, even 75% would do a lot. Let's harness that greed for the common good. We could even hold a ceremony and give the biggest tax payers a ribbon and a TV special.
Think about it.
True Populism
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/523484/true_populism |
You are completely clueless about how money works. The deficit cannot "disappear". We have a debt based monetary system, meaning all money is issued by our central banking system as debt. ALL of it. This is a very simple fact. If you pay off one debt, then it has to be at the expense of another. Paying off the federal debt with taxes will just balloon the private debt. The only solution is to change the entire system (starting by abolishing the Federal Reserve).
Moreover, the idea of taxing companies 90% is completely asinine and I don't even believe for a second that it ever was the case. Your source is probably bunk or leaving out some information. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| visitorq wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading an article and came across this line: "It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent."
I only vaguely remember when Ike was president, but I do know the economy was doing pretty good in the 50's (at least the recession was mild), corporations were not packing up American jobs and moving overseas, millionaires were still being created, the interstate system was being build, all sorts of dams were being put up, people who'd never had indoor toilets were getting them. In short, even at 90% the rich were still working hard and not bailing out. It's a fallacy that high tax rates destroy the desire to work--if anything, it just frustrates 'em and makes them work harder. (It's low income that destroys the will to work.) As someone said, 'Greed is good' and it's an unsatisfiable hunger--just look at Wall Street bankers and brokers if you don't believe that.
The article I was reading was about the recent tax hike in Oregon. Corporations were paying just $10 a year. Maybe 90% is a bit of a stretch, but there's a lot of negotiating room between $10 and 90% isn't there? The wealthiest 3% had their taxes raised 1.8%. That's not exactly confiscatory.
Just imagine 90%. Those deficits would start to disappear pretty darn fast, wouldn't they? Even if after all the crying, whining and compromises to keep the selfish from pouting, even 75% would do a lot. Let's harness that greed for the common good. We could even hold a ceremony and give the biggest tax payers a ribbon and a TV special.
Think about it.
True Populism
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/523484/true_populism |
You are completely clueless about how money works. The deficit cannot "disappear". We have a debt based monetary system, meaning all money is issued by our central banking system as debt. ALL of it. This is a very simple fact. If you pay off one debt, then it has to be at the expense of another. Paying off the federal debt with taxes will just balloon the private debt. The only solution is to change the entire system (starting by abolishing the Federal Reserve).
Moreover, the idea of taxing companies 90% is completely asinine and I don't even believe for a second that it ever was the case. Your source is probably bunk or leaving out some information. |
You are completely clueless about the facts.
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| visitorq wrote: |
You are completely clueless about how money works. |
I concur. Do people even realize where businesses spend their money? Its like they think businesses just steal money from the public and pocket it themselves. That taxing business is like getting the money back that was stolen.
You want business to pay low taxes. Business use THAT money to hire more workers, open new stores, upgrade facilities, etc... Mcdonald's didn't go from one burger joint to a multi billion dollar company because they got a giant loan from the bank.
Businesses make money. Its called "profit". They use the profit to expand their business so they can make MORE money. the more money they make, the more taxes the government gets.
You raise taxes and suddenly businesses don't have as much money to hire an extra worker, open a new store, or upgrade their facilities. The government gets less tax money. What do they do? They figured raising taxes got more money once, it'll work AGAIN so they raise taxes again, and the businesses can't sustain themselves and they close down.
Less taxes generate business. That's why economic zones are special areas with lower taxes to PROMOTE BUSINESS GROWTH. High taxes stunt business. Didn't any of you play Sim City? What happened when you raised taxes real high? You got a lot of money immediately, but soon after your city is abandoned. What happened when you lowered taxes, your city boomed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
You are completely clueless about how money works. |
I concur. Do people even realize where businesses spend their money? Its like they think businesses just steal money from the public and pocket it themselves. That taxing business is like getting the money back that was stolen.
You want business to pay low taxes. Business use THAT money to hire more workers, open new stores, upgrade facilities, etc... Mcdonald's didn't go from one burger joint to a multi billion dollar company because they got a giant loan from the bank.
Businesses make money. Its called "profit". They use the profit to expand their business so they can make MORE money. the more money they make, the more taxes the government gets.
You raise taxes and suddenly businesses don't have as much money to hire an extra worker, open a new store, or upgrade their facilities. The government gets less tax money. What do they do? They figured raising taxes got more money once, it'll work AGAIN so they raise taxes again, and the businesses can't sustain themselves and they close down.
Less taxes generate business. That's why economic zones are special areas with lower taxes to PROMOTE BUSINESS GROWTH. High taxes stunt business. Didn't any of you play Sim City? What happened when you raised taxes real high? You got a lot of money immediately, but soon after your city is abandoned. What happened when you lowered taxes, your city boomed. |
No, I never played SIM CITY. Never heard of it actually. I studied economics at a university. I didn't learn it from a video game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's what happens.
Big firms lobby muni/state/federal government for tax breaks, free land and the rest. They get it, because government is for sale. Then, firms like Goldman pay a 1% tax. This upsets lefties who then demand higher corporate taxes. Meanwhile, SME's pay as they're told. They don't have the power or resources to lobby for special deals. The new taxes hit SME's and they shrink, lay off people and the rest. This creates economic trouble. So the big firms say "look, we'll build a factory/etc in your area if you give us tax breaks. You need the jobs". And so on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
No, I never played SIM CITY. Never heard of it actually. I studied economics at a university. I didn't learn it from a video game. |
You should have. You would've learned a LOT more than what your economics class taught you at University.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MarginalTaxRates.html
| Quote: |
| Economic Growth by Robert J. Barro and Xavier Sala-i-Martin (MIT Press, 2004, p. 514) lists among the world�s twenty fastest-growing economies Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, Botswana, Thailand, Ireland, Malayasia, Portugal, Mauritius, and Indonesia. As Table 1 shows, all these countries either had low marginal tax rates to begin with (Hong Kong) or cut their highest marginal tax rates in half between 1979 and 2002 (Botswana, Mauritius, Singapore, Portugal, etc.). This might be dismissed as a remarkable coincidence were it not for a plethora of economic studies demonstrating several ways in which high marginal tax rates can adversely affect economic performance. |
| Quote: |
| Numerous studies, ably surveyed by Karabegovic et. al. (2004), have found that high marginal tax rates reduce people�s willingness to work up to their potential, to take entrepreneurial risks, and to create and expand a new business: �The evidence from economic research indicates that ... high and increasing marginal taxes have serious negative consequences on economic growth, labor supply, and capital formation� |
| Quote: |
Nobel laureate Robert Lucas emphasized the deleterious effect on economic growth of high tax rates on capital. |
| Quote: |
| Edward Prescott, corecipient of the 2004 Nobel Prize in economics, found that the �low labor supplies in Germany, France, and Italy are due to high [marginal] tax rates� |
So Nobel Prize winners in economics, guys who I trust know MORE about economics than you do, also think that high taxes are bad. Oh, empirical evidence also supports that.
ps. I also studied economics in University. Took 4 classes on it actually. Micro, macro, managerial, international. Oh yeah, also took economics for my MBA. I'd be more than happy to sit down with you about what your Macro-Economics professor taught you. Maybe you can tell me what textbook you used in the class, because none of the textbooks I have ever said high taxes are good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
No, I never played SIM CITY. Never heard of it actually. I studied economics at a university. I didn't learn it from a video game. |
You should have. You would've learned a LOT more than what your economics class taught you at University.
|
I never stated any opinion on the desirability of high taxes or what the marginal tax rate should be. I just thought it remarkable, (ridiculous actually) that anyone would cite a video game as an authority on Economic theory. Since you still insist that I could learn more about economics by playing some video game than I would by studying the subject at a university, well, OK whatever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
No, I never played SIM CITY. Never heard of it actually. I studied economics at a university. I didn't learn it from a video game. |
You should have. You would've learned a LOT more than what your economics class taught you at University.
|
I never stated any opinion on the desirability of high taxes or what the marginal tax rate should be. I just thought it remarkable, (ridiculous actually) that anyone would cite a video game as an authority on Economic theory. Since you still insist that I could learn more about economics by playing some video game than I would by studying the subject at a university, well, OK whatever. |
yeah, the dude loves to jump to conclusions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| You should have. You would've learned a LOT more than what your economics class taught you at University. |
A video game is more instructive than a college education.
Wow. Just wow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading an article and came across this line: "It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent."
I only vaguely remember when Ike was president, but I do know the economy was doing pretty good in the 50's (at least the recession was mild), corporations were not packing up American jobs and moving overseas, millionaires were still being created, the interstate system was being build, all sorts of dams were being put up, people who'd never had indoor toilets were getting them. In short, even at 90% the rich were still working hard and not bailing out. It's a fallacy that high tax rates destroy the desire to work--if anything, it just frustrates 'em and makes them work harder. (It's low income that destroys the will to work.) As someone said, 'Greed is good' and it's an unsatisfiable hunger--just look at Wall Street bankers and brokers if you don't believe that.
The article I was reading was about the recent tax hike in Oregon. Corporations were paying just $10 a year. Maybe 90% is a bit of a stretch, but there's a lot of negotiating room between $10 and 90% isn't there? The wealthiest 3% had their taxes raised 1.8%. That's not exactly confiscatory.
Just imagine 90%. Those deficits would start to disappear pretty darn fast, wouldn't they? Even if after all the crying, whining and compromises to keep the selfish from pouting, even 75% would do a lot. Let's harness that greed for the common good. We could even hold a ceremony and give the biggest tax payers a ribbon and a TV special.
Think about it.
True Populism
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/523484/true_populism |
You are completely clueless about how money works. The deficit cannot "disappear". We have a debt based monetary system, meaning all money is issued by our central banking system as debt. ALL of it. This is a very simple fact. If you pay off one debt, then it has to be at the expense of another. Paying off the federal debt with taxes will just balloon the private debt. The only solution is to change the entire system (starting by abolishing the Federal Reserve).
Moreover, the idea of taxing companies 90% is completely asinine and I don't even believe for a second that it ever was the case. Your source is probably bunk or leaving out some information. |
You are completely clueless about the facts.
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php |
"Completely" is OTT. He may be a bit clueless about what the top tax bracket once was, but he is on the mark regarding the Fed, debt, and money creation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I was reading an article and came across this line: "It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent."
I only vaguely remember when Ike was president, but I do know the economy was doing pretty good in the 50's (at least the recession was mild), corporations were not packing up American jobs and moving overseas, millionaires were still being created, the interstate system was being build, all sorts of dams were being put up, people who'd never had indoor toilets were getting them. In short, even at 90% the rich were still working hard and not bailing out. It's a fallacy that high tax rates destroy the desire to work--if anything, it just frustrates 'em and makes them work harder. (It's low income that destroys the will to work.) As someone said, 'Greed is good' and it's an unsatisfiable hunger--just look at Wall Street bankers and brokers if you don't believe that.
The article I was reading was about the recent tax hike in Oregon. Corporations were paying just $10 a year. Maybe 90% is a bit of a stretch, but there's a lot of negotiating room between $10 and 90% isn't there? The wealthiest 3% had their taxes raised 1.8%. That's not exactly confiscatory.
Just imagine 90%. Those deficits would start to disappear pretty darn fast, wouldn't they? Even if after all the crying, whining and compromises to keep the selfish from pouting, even 75% would do a lot. Let's harness that greed for the common good. We could even hold a ceremony and give the biggest tax payers a ribbon and a TV special.
Think about it.
True Populism
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/523484/true_populism |
You are completely clueless about how money works. The deficit cannot "disappear". We have a debt based monetary system, meaning all money is issued by our central banking system as debt. ALL of it. This is a very simple fact. If you pay off one debt, then it has to be at the expense of another. Paying off the federal debt with taxes will just balloon the private debt. The only solution is to change the entire system (starting by abolishing the Federal Reserve).
Moreover, the idea of taxing companies 90% is completely asinine and I don't even believe for a second that it ever was the case. Your source is probably bunk or leaving out some information. |
You are completely clueless about the facts.
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php |
And you're a first level thinker who doesn't know how to read properly. "Leaving out information", such as what is defined as "taxable income", what loopholes exist for the rich not to have to pay, and how many companies actually paid such ridiculous taxes during that time. I'm willing to bet few did or do. Just look at the Rockefellers - they pretty much invented the notion of setting up ten thousand trusts (and "cheritable foundations") to keep their wealth hidden (much of it offshore). Nearly all of the very wealthy do this to avoid paying taxes. Such a tax rate only increases corruption and does not benefit the economy at all.
How many fortune 500 company CEOs do you think paid 91% tax???
Go on jaykim, if you're so smart (as you like to pretend), then provide the details. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Let's Bring Back Ike's 90% Tax Rates |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
I never stated any opinion on the desirability of high taxes or what the marginal tax rate should be. I just thought it remarkable, (ridiculous actually) that anyone would cite a video game as an authority on Economic theory. Since you still insist that I could learn more about economics by playing some video game than I would by studying the subject at a university, well, OK whatever. |
I used Sim City to explain taxes in a simple way. Much easier than going into details about Macroeconomic theory, the relationships between consumption and circulation between households, governments, and corporations. If you talk about those 3, you would have to get into workforce, commodities, and the financial markets.
Rather than write up a textbook in the thread, I used Sim City to show a basic concept of how it works.
FOX:
No comment.
Bucheon bum:
I figured Jayfkim didn't agree with my post. Did it seem like he agreed with what I said? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When I played Sim City I had a cheat code. I just typed some phrase a bunch of times and all this free money appeared in my account. I used that free money to build what I wanted.
So I guess Sim City is just like economics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
When I played Sim City I had a cheat code. I just typed some phrase a bunch of times and all this free money appeared in my account. I used that free money to build what I wanted.
So I guess Sim City is just like economics. |
Is there a cheat code to turn "inflation mode" off? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
