Korean Job Discussion Forums

[hoopslam]

I'm starting a new job next week and my friend (who already works there) told me I'd basically be teaching one elementary class and sitting in on detention classes for my first month (april being exam month so no middle school kids). I've taught in Korea for a while now and so far, most of my students love me. The problem is, I am no good at disciplining. I always cave in and just bribe with candy or goof off just as much as the kids. While this sort of behavior was okay at my old hagwon, I have a feeling this new one (with cctv's) won't allow me to goof off as it seems like a pretty serious environment. I'm a pretty goofy dude so I need some tips on getting more serious and authoritative. So, what are your best ways of disciplining kids?

[NCdan]

Shame them. Calling bad kids babies is amazingly effective here as the whole class will chime in with the baby insults. If the student has something they shouldn't have like a cell phone or toy, just take it and give it back at the end of class. Standards always work well if the kid is really bad. And remember, it's always easier to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission, and that's doubly, no triply true in Korea.

[frankly speaking]

I cannot believe that NCDan is serious at all.

If he is, then it is the worst advice that I have ever heard.

Embarrassing and verbally abusing children is not the way to instill solid discipline.

To the OP. I think that recognizing that you need to change your attitude to teaching to be more professional is the right track.

I wouldn't worry about discipline for children as much as self discipline for yourself. Be the teacher. Don't resort to the things that children to. Name calling, threatening and bullying are childish, so why should a teacher ever do that?

Keep the class active and engaging. Always be prepared with as many activities that support your lesson and do not allow for much transition time. The more time you give the harder it is to keep control.

To me using discipline of any sort in the classroom means that I have failed already by not keeping the students on track and learning. If the students are engaged in the material and enjoying learning, I do not ever need to discipline.

[Goon-Yang]

[Senior]

If you have to use discipline, you've already lost. ie discipline should be a the very last ultimate resort. Set the rules early on. Let them know what the expectations are. If a student is talking while you are trying to instruct, stop instructing until they are quiet. Stare at that student until they get the idea.

Name calling isn't a good idea. I single out a student and tell him to "shut up" sometimes. This is seen as quite shocking by some students, but others find it hilarious. Either reaction is fine by me.

If a class is unruly when I walk in, often I will simply walk out again. This gives the message that loud behavior is unacceptable.

There are a million things that can make or break your relationship with the students. Often, having what it takes simply isn't in you. Sometimes, you just don't click with a group of students. You have to work it out for yourself. There really isn't a secret formula.

[Whitey Otez]

Lots of good advice so far. I like to start my first class by tossing out a random student, just to let the kids know I mean serious business. The next time a kid acts up, I take of my shoe and beat them about the head. If it's something minor, I draw a circle on the board and have the student put her or his nose in the circle until class is finished. I also like to make naughty students write English sentences fifty times over then rip them up when the student is done. Parents either love me or hate me.

I'm only kidding, of course.

My last job had cctv, and I was pretty upset to find out that they were not recording anything, and they were not monitoring the cctv to support me in any way. I tried telling the kids that I was tugging on my ear to signal the principal, but he never came. So then I told the kids that no one was watching us or recording us, so they were free to do as they pleased, since they could speak to their parents but I could not. The principal was useless and the Korean teachers didn't see any reason to involve themselves. I told the principal to be more supportive of the next teacher, as the students are unaware of the fact that their behavior has a tendency to ruin younger teachers' impression of Korea. He said that all I needed to do was stand by the desks of the bad kids, but he didn't say what to do when the bad kids weren't staying at their desks. He thought I was being over the top because whenever he would come into my class and observe, the kids always straightened up and behaved like angels.

Really, without having access to someone that can talk to parents on your behalf, you're up the creek regarding discipline. Everything you do or say is held against you in the negative light of children speaking to their parents speaking to your coteachers and/or director. You might try recording them for posterity if they are too gonzo so you have evidence that they are acting up, but that requires you to run a truly tight lesson according to the school's standards and understand that problems with the students will still be your fault - you bore the kid, you give too much attention to other students, you're too permissive, you're too strict, your necktie is the wrong pattern, or you just don't understand Korean culture.

If it becomes a problem, you can just ask the boss point blank, "What do you want me to do about it?"

[NCdan]

[frankly speaking]

NCDAN, you are lucky that you are in Korea, because you would be facing law suits and definite dismissal if you did the things that you suggest in the USA.

Sarcasm is a form of verbal abuse and is punishable by the court system in the US. I taught in one school system where a teacher was fired, and then sued by parents because of ridiculing a student the same way that you suggest.

Kids don't respect you, because you are not professional. I have never had a class not take me seriously. I have never had to resort to being too strict or scaring my students or by threatening them the first day and show them who is boss.

They know who is boss when you act professional and know what you are doing.

I am very grateful that my children don't have teachers like NCDan.

Yes Dan, every teacher that isn't abusive must have chaotic classes, because everyone knows that students only behave when they are scared. What a total idiotic response.

I run a very structured classroom, but I don't ever need to resort to punishment or ridicule. Most often just a firm glare will do the trick. I never raise my voice or physically remove a child from my class. I have in the past for rare circumstances, but it rarely happens more than 1 or two times a year. I only remove a student from class if they are causing physical harm to other students or are having extreme emotional outbursts that cannot be controlled quickly in class.

I don't think that separating a kid from the learning environment is a good way to get them to respect the rules of the class or be more active in the learning process.

I don't do reward or punishment charts either. These things do work, but not in the long run and take extra time from the learning process.

90% of an effective class environment is to keep the students busy with activities and exercises that reinforce your lesson. If that is in place the other things are easily ignored and behavior problems seldom raise up.

NCDan, I would like to know if any teacher that you had in your life did the things that you claim to do? I know that I never had a teacher like that. I had disciplinarian type teachers but none that ever embarrassed me or other students.

I don't know why you suggest to do things that no one would ever want to have done to them.

[explorer25]

"90% of an effective class environment is to keep the students busy with activities and exercises that reinforce your lesson. If that is in place the other things are easily ignored and behavior problems seldom raise up. "

Even if you have very good activities, there's always that ONE KID who wont cooperate, and SPEAK Korean and try to get others involved as well. Another thing is, some kids are just BAD behaving kids, and they need psychiatric help! At my previous school, even the supervisor witnessed the disruptive behaviour this kid had, and despite many warnings from the school to his parents, there was no change, hence they removed the kid from the school.

Also ridiculing sometimes works as to say that " they are babies," meaning they are being IMMATURE of their age...So it's not said in a bad way, but to get their attention that they are behaving immaturely, and hence IN THIS CULTURE, Asia, it's totally O.K. In U.S. however where everything is too relaxed, you get into other problems where you dont know who is the boss, you or the STUDENTS

[Whistleblower]

Have backup material. The most disruptive are keen for attention and they may have a different way of learning. I find that wordsearch puzzles, colouring, etc are quite suitable for disruptive students. They focus on the activity and if it is related to the subject, even better.

Otherwise, do the "silent-stare" trick. Look around the classroom until the students quiet down and then the class will force the disruptive student to submission to be quiet. It will show that you have control, even when you don't speak.

[bde2]

sorry for the double post...

[bde2]

[Saskatoongirl]

if u work at an academy where teachers are allowed to use the stick or paddle the kids are much more respectable and obedient even if u don't even use it much, it also makes a big difference if they expel kids who don't try.

[winterfall]

I side with Dan on this one. Frankly speaking, it seems like you've been blessed with remarkably gifted classes. Students are well behaved and want to learn. Besides the occasional odd ball. But for those of us who work with kids who could care less about English and whose parents have given up on them. There's no other way. Unless someone can enlighten me.

[CKAB]