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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!
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 Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: Grammar... not a strong point! |
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One of the questions in a test was "Mr Smith requests that someone _____ the document by fax immediately". The answer is 'send'. Why is it not 'sends'? I need to explain it to the students but its confusing me just as much...
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: |
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It's the old fashioned 'subjunctive' which means the stem form of the verb is used after certain verbs like 'request' suggest' etc,.. usually implying some kind of obligation.
Tell your students that it's very old fashioned and nobody (under 60) would care at all if someone said 'Mr Smith requests that someone sends the document by fax immediately.' |
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Chambertin
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: Gunsan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I always use this formula
I= Special
1 = s
2 or more = No S
Someone can refer to a single person or the whole office. Just like you can be you or all of you. So it falls under the 2 or more clause.
But like the other preson says, if you can an American who really cares about grammEr who isnt posting on this forum or teaching eNglish back home then you get a cookie.
I have still yet to get a clear answer fOrm any teacher if it is , , and or , and for the combo. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Either you're kidding or this is a great example of some 'data' that might prove Fox wrong.
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| I'm saying a college degree is sufficient to teach your native language to others. You're saying it's not. The Korean government agrees with me, not with you. |
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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your help.
I'm helping some students prepare for a speaking test but the problem is that they have to answer in full and grammaically correct sentences... A lot of the time it sounds very unnatural. |
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reactionary
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
It's the old fashioned 'subjunctive' which means the stem form of the verb is used after certain verbs like 'request' suggest' etc,.. usually implying some kind of obligation.
Tell your students that it's very old fashioned and nobody (under 60) would care at all if someone said 'Mr Smith requests that someone sends the document by fax immediately.' |
Really? That would actually stand out to me as something a non-native english speaker would say. I mean, i (and most) obviously still understand what is being said, but like an article or preposition error, it sounds kind of jarring and unnatural.
especially because that's an EXTREMELY formal sentence to begin with, it makes the grammar error stand out even more... since a more casual sentence would be "he would like someone to send the fax immediately" or along those lines. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| reactionary wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
It's the old fashioned 'subjunctive' which means the stem form of the verb is used after certain verbs like 'request' suggest' etc,.. usually implying some kind of obligation.
Tell your students that it's very old fashioned and nobody (under 60) would care at all if someone said 'Mr Smith requests that someone sends the document by fax immediately.' |
Really? That would actually stand out to me as something a non-native english speaker would say. I mean, i (and most) obviously still understand what is being said, but like an article or preposition error, it sounds kind of jarring and unnatural.
especially because that's an EXTREMELY formal sentence to begin with, it makes the grammar error stand out even more... since a more casual sentence would be "he would like someone to send the fax immediately" or along those lines. |
...except that it is not a grammar error....it is the subjunctive tense which is prescriptively correct in this case... as has been mentioned.
It is still prescribed formally...though certainly no longer common.
These are the kinds of questions Kstudents are still being asked on TEPS, and TOEIC tests...so it is a good idea to be aware of the correct forms. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Really? That would actually stand out to me as something a non-native english speaker would say. I mean, i (and most) obviously still understand what is being said, but like an article or preposition error, it sounds kind of jarring and unnatural.
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True, in such a formal sentence the subjunctive might sound a bit more natural. I was thinking more in examples such as 'He looks really ill, I suggest he goes to hospital'. Would anyone really notice that mistake in spoken English and correct it? I can't believe Koreans are still being tested on this kind of stuff in TEPS and TOEIC. Bearing in mind their general lack of ability to understand and respond effectively to normal spoken English. |
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