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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Which is a more viable option? |
| Teach in Korea and save money THEN go to Grad school. |
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| Go into more debt now, but start in a Master's program and then go to Korea. |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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 Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: The best education? |
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Does anyone have any suggestions for the best course of action for someone who wants to go into ESL as a career?
I've read the thread about some of the thread about TESOL certification vs CELTA, and it just seems to be more confusing. Should I get more direct experience teaching in Korea first, or get another Bachelor's, but this time in Education? Or should I just go far a Master's?
I want to plan for the long term, but I have to consider the short term too. Thoughts? |
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whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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If you know that you want to stay in ESL, and you know that you want to come to Korea then you can get your MA here.
Dankook Uni offers a nights and weekends MATESOL, and it's half price for non-Koreans. All of the courses are taught in English, and most of the profs are native speakers.
PM me for more details if you want. |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I can't pm yet because I'm pretty new to the site, but I would like more info. Can you pm me please? Is a degree from a Korean uni as helpful as from a US school? |
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air76
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| I can't imagine that it is a good idea to get an MA without trying the job out for a year or two to see if you like it....not to mention that yes, you could save enough in a year or two to pay for your Masters in cash. |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I have taught in Korea for one year already. I didn't renew my contract or get another job immediately for a few reasons, but basically I had this pipe-dream that I would come back to the States and get my Master's. But when I got home, my savings got eaten up so fast, and none of the jobs I could find would come close to paying for Grad school, so I'm sort of in limbo.
I want to get my career started as soon as possible because I'm not getting any younger, but I need to be able to pay for it, right? Is a Korean degree worthwhile, though? |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Do try out the profession for a while to see if it's what you want to do longterm before you invest money in an MA.
Don't get your MA in Korea as it would be questioned in any other country where you tried to find work.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Agreed, try out the profession for a while longer, save up a little nest egg and then do your MA. Do the MA by distance while you're working, it will save you time, money and will be directly applicable to your work. Or, do your MA at a Korean university - there are some good TEFL/TESOL programs offered jointly by Korean and American universities.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Don't get your MA in Korea as it would be questioned in any other country where you tried to find work. |
You left Korea years ago and don't hold a graduate degree from a Korean institution, so how do you know this? The best universities and the top companies in the world accept degrees from Korea, why would they be questioned "in any other country?"
You don't like Korea and have made this clear in post after post. I respect the fact that you had a negative experience here, but making uninformed and untrue statements like the above makes you seem bitter and undermines your credibility. |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
Agreed, try out the profession for a while longer, save up a little nest egg and then do your MA. Do the MA by distance while you're working, it will save you time, money and will be directly applicable to your work. Or, do your MA at a Korean university - there are some good TEFL/TESOL programs offered jointly by Korean and American universities.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Don't get your MA in Korea as it would be questioned in any other country where you tried to find work. |
You left Korea years ago and don't hold a graduate degree from a Korean institution, so how do you know this? The best universities and the top companies in the world accept degrees from Korea, why would they be questioned "in any other country?"
You don't like Korea and have made this clear in post after post. I respect the fact that you had a negative experience here, but making uninformed and untrue statements like the above makes you seem bitter and undermines your credibility. |
Just to clarify, if you do an MA at a Western university IN Korea that is accredited in the west, that would be accepted I would think. However, if you get your MA from a Korean university directly, you would have difficulty using it for employment purposes in the EFL INDUSTRY. I believe this is what the OP was referring to. In Saudi, I know for a fact that military contractors/universities require the degree to be from an accredited university (in an English speaking country) and on site. You may be able to find exceptions but the former is more common.
Yes, companies/universities do hire/accept individuals with Korean degrees but that is usually not the case in the EFL industry.
Finally, having taught in a well known Korean uni, I happen to know the educational value of a Korean degree is nil. I'm sure many profs on this board would agree.
I did have a negative experience in Korea but that does not take away from the veracity of my opinion. I think it's incredibly irresponsible to encourage the OP to make such an investment in a degree that will give him an ambiguous employment status at best.
If you still don't believe me, send in a few fake resumes with a Korean MA listed and see what kind of responses you get. I'll bet you you'll have the least success in Korea itself.
Have a nice day in Korea!
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Yes, companies/universities do hire/accept individuals with Korean degrees but that is usually not the case in the EFL industry. |
Disagree. Important are English-speaking nationality and a first degree done at a university in the big 7. Graduate degrees are often required for employment, but it is not usually stipulated that these must have been done on-site or at a university in the big 7.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Finally, having taught in a well known Korean uni, I happen to know the educational value of a Korean degree is nil. I'm sure many profs on this board would agree. |
Claiming that the educational value of a Korean degree is nil is simply erroneous and is insulting not only to Korean students and their professors, but also to the thousands of international students that come to Korea to study. Making claims such as the above based on your experience teaching English as a Foreign Language at a university is laughable; you did not teach content courses, you did not supervise MA/PhD students and you were not a faculty member.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| I did have a negative experience in Korea but that does not take away from the veracity of my opinion. I think it's incredibly irresponsible to encourage the OP to make such an investment in a degree that will give him an ambiguous employment status at best. |
You do not have a graduate degree from a Korean university and you have not lived in Korea for several years. You are uninformed and are allowing your personal feelings regarding anything Korean to cloud your judgement.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| If you still don't believe me, send in a few fake resumes with a Korean MA listed and see what kind of responses you get. I'll bet you you'll have the least success in Korea itself. |
I'm currently doing a post-graduate degree at KU and, while I have just started my studies, simply the fact that I am attending KU is well received by prospective employers. I am not worried about my future employment prospects in Korea, or anywhere else. |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Yes, companies/universities do hire/accept individuals with Korean degrees but that is usually not the case in the EFL industry. |
Disagree. Important are English-speaking nationality and a first degree done at a university in the big 7. Graduate degrees are often required for employment, but it is not usually stipulated that these must have been done on-site or at a university in the big 7.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| Finally, having taught in a well known Korean uni, I happen to know the educational value of a Korean degree is nil. I'm sure many profs on this board would agree. |
Claiming that the educational value of a Korean degree is nil is simply erroneous and is insulting not only to Korean students and their professors, but also to the thousands of international students that come to Korea to study. Making claims such as the above based on your experience teaching English as a Foreign Language at a university is laughable; you did not teach content courses, you did not supervise MA/PhD students and you were not a faculty member.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| I did have a negative experience in Korea but that does not take away from the veracity of my opinion. I think it's incredibly irresponsible to encourage the OP to make such an investment in a degree that will give him an ambiguous employment status at best. |
You do not have a graduate degree from a Korean university and you have not lived in Korea for several years. You are uninformed and are allowing your personal feelings regarding anything Korean to cloud your judgement.
| Sadebugo1 wrote: |
| If you still don't believe me, send in a few fake resumes with a Korean MA listed and see what kind of responses you get. I'll bet you you'll have the least success in Korea itself. |
I'm currently doing a post-graduate degree at KU and, while I have just started my studies, simply the fact that I am attending KU is well received by prospective employers. I am not worried about my future employment prospects in Korea, or anywhere else. |
Ahhh, now I see where the emotion on this issue is coming from. You are actually enrolled in such a program. Perhaps, I am not the only one who has a 'vested interest' in this argument. Anyway, I am sorry for destroying your paradigm but I stand by everything I said.
A couple of points, you did not address the hiring practices I referred to in Saudi Arabia/the Middle East. Although you might disagree, Saudi, etc. is relevant to this argument because many EFLers go there for better opportunities/salaries. I can guarantee you they will not accept a Korean MA as the deciding factor in hiring.
You're quite right about my university experience. However, I did observe the way the university functioned. Students were habitually absent from classes with professors lowering the standards to allow for higher grading. I dealt with professors who asked the western staff to do rewrites on their journal articles while also asking us to ignore the obvious instances of plagiarism. There's a reason why SNU doesn't rank in the top 50 on any worldwide rankings of universities and it's not because of anti-Korean sentiment. There's also a reason why Korean students flock to the west in droves to attend western universities.
I can't believe I'm even debating this with you. Korean tertiary education has such a poor reputation (deservedly so) that, if we can't agree on that as the premise of the discussion, then there's no point in continuing.
Sorry if I've offended all students/professors of Korean universities but the truth is sometimes harsh that way.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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Kang-aji
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. Well, thanks you guys. This discussion has been really interesting and informative. I don't know how you two feel about it, but I think the strength of both of your opinions has made this one of the best discussions about a subject I've ever read on a forum. Thanks again!
I'm still not sure which path I'll take, but I have decided to go back to Korea for awhile to save up money, so I have some time before I have to make that decision.
This has provided me with much food for thought, but please if you have more to say, go ahead! Or if anyone else has something to add to either argument, jump in! I need this! |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kang-aji wrote: |
Wow. Well, thanks you guys. This discussion has been really interesting and informative. I don't know how you two feel about it, but I think the strength of both of your opinions has made this one of the best discussions about a subject I've ever read on a forum. Thanks again!
I'm still not sure which path I'll take, but I have decided to go back to Korea for awhile to save up money, so I have some time before I have to make that decision.
This has provided me with much food for thought, but please if you have more to say, go ahead! Or if anyone else has something to add to either argument, jump in! I need this! |
You're very welcome. Really, don't take anything I or the other poster have said as absolute. Continue to research this both on Dave's and other forums and I'm sure you'll make the right decision for what's best for you.
As an aside, people on this board always accuse me of being too negative about Korea, but I'm not a negative person by nature. Ask me about Afghanistan in '08 and I'm pretty much positive on it. It's just that Korea has a confluence of problems that affected me more than anywhere else. Those who disagree with me do so vehemently I think because I point out what difficult situations they are currentlyin and don't want to face the reality of it. Of course, there are happy people in Korea. They just don't take so personally what I write.
Take care and good luck with your decision.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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katsu
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: here and there
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:04 pm Post subject: saving for gradschool |
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| well i really do like living and working in korea, but the pay here is really crappy. i haven't saved a penny and being here has put me into debt, but i do chose to live a certain lifestyle and travel often. i think korea's good if you want to escape from your western life for a bit and it's possible to save some money depending on your lifestyle and how much debt you have prior to coming to korea. i know some ppl who were had a big debt (over $35 000) and while they have been able to make payments that are over their minimum they haven't saved anything. so i gues it does depend on your debt. you have no debt or something small like $10 000 and aren't really into spending much or travelling then for sure you'd be able to pay it off and start saving for grad school. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Do whatever keeps you out of debt.
The reason you are going to school is to make money. Do whatever makes you the most money. And use math to make this calculation, not "well when I graduate I'll definitely get an 80k a year job". There's probably at least 50,000-100,000 people across the US working at Circuit City who thought that. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| There's probably at least 50,000-100,000 people across the US working at Circuit City who thought that. |
Or in Korea!  |
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