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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Job |
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Article here
| Gov. Rick Perry wrote: |
PERRY: At the end of the day, when the history books are written, I think George W. Bush will go down as a very, very good President. Approaching great? I don�t know yet because I don�t know if we�ve seen the �
A year and a half since he�s been out of office, this may be a little bit early to write George�s history. But here�s why he was an incredibly good President: because this man kept America safe. [�]
Anyone who is not a rank political hack, who has an agenda, and looks at this President�s efforts � I mean, there are two things that I think people judge Presidents on: their safety and the economy. |
As the rest of the article correctly points out, in terms of both safety and economy, Bush did a terrible job. A horrific terrorist attack occured, after which Bush sent thousands of Americans to their deaths in needless overseas wars. That's not safety, it's catastrophe. The economy fell apart completely under the Bush Administration by any reasonable standard, and a federal budget surplus turned into a deficit.
How can even die-hard Republicans accept this kind of rhetoric? If Republicans really want to stand up for economic conservatism, they're going to need to just accept that Bush was a mistake. Reality needs to set in. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Fox wrote: |
Article here
| Gov. Rick Perry wrote: |
PERRY: At the end of the day, when the history books are written, I think George W. Bush will go down as a very, very good President. Approaching great? I don�t know yet because I don�t know if we�ve seen the �
A year and a half since he�s been out of office, this may be a little bit early to write George�s history. But here�s why he was an incredibly good President: because this man kept America safe. [�]
Anyone who is not a rank political hack, who has an agenda, and looks at this President�s efforts � I mean, there are two things that I think people judge Presidents on: their safety and the economy. |
As the rest of the article correctly points out, in terms of both safety and economy, Bush did a terrible job. A horrific terrorist attack occured, after which Bush sent thousands of Americans to their deaths in needless overseas wars. That's not safety, it's catastrophe. The economy fell apart completely under the Bush Administration by any reasonable standard, and a federal budget surplus turned into a deficit.
How can even die-hard Republicans accept this kind of rhetoric? If Republicans really want to stand up for economic conservatism, they're going to need to just accept that Bush was a mistake. Reality needs to set in. |
Big whoop. What is the new guy doing to fix all the old guy's mistakes? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Article here
| Gov. Rick Perry wrote: |
PERRY: At the end of the day, when the history books are written, I think George W. Bush will go down as a very, very good President. Approaching great? I don�t know yet because I don�t know if we�ve seen the �
A year and a half since he�s been out of office, this may be a little bit early to write George�s history. But here�s why he was an incredibly good President: because this man kept America safe. [�]
Anyone who is not a rank political hack, who has an agenda, and looks at this President�s efforts � I mean, there are two things that I think people judge Presidents on: their safety and the economy. |
As the rest of the article correctly points out, in terms of both safety and economy, Bush did a terrible job. A horrific terrorist attack occured, after which Bush sent thousands of Americans to their deaths in needless overseas wars. That's not safety, it's catastrophe. The economy fell apart completely under the Bush Administration by any reasonable standard, and a federal budget surplus turned into a deficit.
How can even die-hard Republicans accept this kind of rhetoric? If Republicans really want to stand up for economic conservatism, they're going to need to just accept that Bush was a mistake. Reality needs to set in. |
Big whoop. What is the new guy doing to fix all the old guy's mistakes. |
So instead of condemning Rick Perry for attempting to white-wash Bush's legacy with outright lies, your response is, "Well, in my opinion Obama's no better?" I obviously don't think Obama's much better (though he is at least slightly better; under an Obama presidency there's at least a chance for rubbish like Don't Ask Don't Tell to end, for example), but that doesn't excuse conservatives outright lying about Bush.
American conservatives need to get their act together. Our nation needs an actual conservative party. That means rejecting people like George W. Bush, even if it comes at the cost of the party in question's vanity. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Article here
| Gov. Rick Perry wrote: |
PERRY: At the end of the day, when the history books are written, I think George W. Bush will go down as a very, very good President. Approaching great? I don�t know yet because I don�t know if we�ve seen the �
A year and a half since he�s been out of office, this may be a little bit early to write George�s history. But here�s why he was an incredibly good President: because this man kept America safe. [�]
Anyone who is not a rank political hack, who has an agenda, and looks at this President�s efforts � I mean, there are two things that I think people judge Presidents on: their safety and the economy. |
As the rest of the article correctly points out, in terms of both safety and economy, Bush did a terrible job. A horrific terrorist attack occured, after which Bush sent thousands of Americans to their deaths in needless overseas wars. That's not safety, it's catastrophe. The economy fell apart completely under the Bush Administration by any reasonable standard, and a federal budget surplus turned into a deficit.
How can even die-hard Republicans accept this kind of rhetoric? If Republicans really want to stand up for economic conservatism, they're going to need to just accept that Bush was a mistake. Reality needs to set in. |
Big whoop. What is the new guy doing to fix all the old guy's mistakes. |
So instead of condemning Rick Perry for attempting to white-wash Bush's legacy with outright lies, your response is, "Well, in my opinion Obama's no better?" I obviously don't think Obama's much better (though he is at least slightly better; under an Obama presidency there's at least a chance for rubbish like Don't Ask Don't Tell to end, for example), but that doesn't excuse conservatives outright lying about Bush. |
I don't really have a opinion either way. The man is a politician. There is a good chance that what ever comes out of his mouth is going to be a lie or something stupid. Why would I deign to have an opinion on that either way?
| Quote: |
| American conservatives need to get their act together. Our nation needs an actual conservative party. That means rejecting people like George W. Bush, even if it comes at the cost of the party in question's vanity. |
"Conservative" is just a word. If you ask 10 people what it means you will get 10 answers. Why is it so important to have a party based around that particular word? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Senior wrote: |
| I don't really have a opinion either way. The man is a politician. There is a good chance that what ever comes out of his mouth is going to be a lie or something stupid. Why would I deign to have an opinion on that either way? |
Why would you post on the subject if you didn't have an opinion?
| Senior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| American conservatives need to get their act together. Our nation needs an actual conservative party. That means rejecting people like George W. Bush, even if it comes at the cost of the party in question's vanity. |
"Conservative" is just a word. If you ask 10 people what it means you will get 10 answers. Why is it so important to have a party based around that particular word? |
Okay, so Senior doesn't think having a party that actively supports economic conservatism is important. Noted. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| I don't really have a opinion either way. The man is a politician. There is a good chance that what ever comes out of his mouth is going to be a lie or something stupid. Why would I deign to have an opinion on that either way? |
Why would you post on the subject if you didn't have an opinion? |
Just trying to give some perspective. This is a real forest for the trees issue.
| Quote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Quote: |
| American conservatives need to get their act together. Our nation needs an actual conservative party. That means rejecting people like George W. Bush, even if it comes at the cost of the party in question's vanity. |
"Conservative" is just a word. If you ask 10 people what it means you will get 10 answers. Why is it so important to have a party based around that particular word? |
Okay, so Senior doesn't think having a party that actively supports economic conservatism is important. Noted. |
Why did you bring the "economic" part into it? Of course I support conservatism in that area. You know that full well. We weren't discussing that area specifically. Why did you bring it up? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Why did you bring the "economic" part into it? Of course I support conservatism in that area. You know that full well. We weren't discussing that area specifically. Why did you bring it up? |
You asked why it was important, I explained by accepting your statement at face value and showing you how absurd and pointlessly contrary it was. Tell you what, though, I won't bother next time; no point in assisting you in derailing my own threads. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Why did you bring the "economic" part into it? Of course I support conservatism in that area. You know that full well. We weren't discussing that area specifically. Why did you bring it up? |
You asked why it was important, I explained by accepting your statement at face value and showing you how absurd and pointlessly contrary it was. Tell you what, though, I won't bother next time; no point in assisting you in derailing my own threads. |
This dude sucks and is a big poopy head.
Are you happy now? |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Fox,
Presidents obtain a much rosier legacy than they often deserve. I absolutely agree with you, that on balance, Bush's Presidency was terrible. But he will be forgiven for the Iraq War debacle, and even celebrated for it, if Iraq remains a democracy in 30 years.
However, I think his legacy would have been much safer if he hadn't bankrupted America to pursue the Iraq War; for example, historians are going to criticize him for pursuing tax cuts during wartime. That was just some manner of ideological insanity. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bush was an atrocious, terrible president, maybe one of the worst ever.
But he wasn't that bad. All the crap that happens in this world would still go on regardless. Sure things might be a little better in some areas, a little better in others, but baring calamitous upheaval ala millions dead war or bozo financial decision (which would never happen, our markets are to independent to be that influenced by the President) nothing the President does is going to really impact me, and would probably go down the same way irrespective of party.
Both parties give you carrots and whack you with sticks, they just choose different ones. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| But he will be forgiven for the Iraq War debacle, and even celebrated for it, if Iraq remains a democracy in 30 years. |
Yes, this is probably true.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| But he wasn't that bad. All the crap that happens in this world would still go on regardless. |
Hard to say whether or not specifics -- especially like the War in Iraq, which was a very discretionary war -- would have played out similarly under another President. Afghanistan might have, but I think Iraq would have been unlikely. With regards to other policies, it's hard to know how much policy originates in the White House vs. the Senate, so it's difficult to judge.
Ultimately what would have happened under another President is a counterfactual we can never know. What happened under Bush was terrible, though, and his actions made it worse rather than better, so I really do think he was "that bad."
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Both parties give you carrots and whack you with sticks, they just choose different ones. |
Well, of course; government is about governing, after all, and that's going to invariably involve "carrots" and "sticks." Some carrots and sticks are better than others, though. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
Article here
| Gov. Rick Perry wrote: |
PERRY: At the end of the day, when the history books are written, I think George W. Bush will go down as a very, very good President. Approaching great? I don�t know yet because I don�t know if we�ve seen the �
A year and a half since he�s been out of office, this may be a little bit early to write George�s history. But here�s why he was an incredibly good President: because this man kept America safe. [�]
Anyone who is not a rank political hack, who has an agenda, and looks at this President�s efforts � I mean, there are two things that I think people judge Presidents on: their safety and the economy. |
As the rest of the article correctly points out, in terms of both safety and economy, Bush did a terrible job. A horrific terrorist attack occured, after which Bush sent thousands of Americans to their deaths in needless overseas wars. That's not safety, it's catastrophe. The economy fell apart completely under the Bush Administration by any reasonable standard, and a federal budget surplus turned into a deficit.
How can even die-hard Republicans accept this kind of rhetoric? If Republicans really want to stand up for economic conservatism, they're going to need to just accept that Bush was a mistake. Reality needs to set in. |
Big whoop. What is the new guy doing to fix all the old guy's mistakes. |
So instead of condemning Rick Perry for attempting to white-wash Bush's legacy with outright lies, your response is, "Well, in my opinion Obama's no better?" I obviously don't think Obama's much better (though he is at least slightly better; under an Obama presidency there's at least a chance for rubbish like Don't Ask Don't Tell to end, for example), but that doesn't excuse conservatives outright lying about Bush.
American conservatives need to get their act together. Our nation needs an actual conservative party. That means rejecting people like George W. Bush, even if it comes at the cost of the party in question's vanity. |
Perry gave his opinion. He isn't lying. It is your opinion that he is lying.
He has a right to give his opinion when solicited. That you have a right to insult him and call him a liar based on no other grounds than your own amateur appraisal of current events is questionable. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Perry: Only Political Hacks Deny Bush Did a Very Good Jo |
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| .38 Special wrote: |
| Perry gave his opinion. He isn't lying. |
Gov. Rick Perry said anyone who thinks poorly of George W. Bush's presidency is a "rank political hack." This is a lie: the group of people who think poorly of George W. Bush's Presidency includes people who are not rank political hacks. Gov. Rick Perry said George W. Bush kept America safe. This is a lie: George W. Bush left America far worse than he found it, failed to prevent a terrorist attack that has not been matched since in terms of destruction and devestation, and willingly sent Americans to their deaths in two separate unnecessary wars.
Stop being partisan and think about this critically for a moment.
| .38 Special wrote: |
| It is your opinion that he is lying. |
No, it's a fact.
| .38 Special wrote: |
| He has a right to give his opinion when solicited. |
Yes, he does. And I have the right to point out that he's a liar. And you have the right to defend his lies. So what? Something being an opinion doesn't mean it doesn't have a truth value. If I say, "It's my opinion that ice freezes at 50 degrees farenheit," then I'm wrong. If I know it's not true and still say it, then I'm lying. Gov. Perry has access to the same news sources as the rest of us; he knows what he is saying isn't true. He knows there's legitimate reasons for people who are by no means "rank political hacks" to be critical of Bush. He's lying.
| .38 Special wrote: |
| That you have a right to insult him and call him a liar based on no other grounds than your own amateur appraisal of current events is questionable. |
It's questionable whether I have the right to call him a liar? Pretty sure that still falls under freedom of speech kiddo, especially given the fact that Gov. Perry is a public figure. What makes you especially hypocritical here is that Gov. Perry insulted people in his own statement, calling people who feel Bush was a bad President rank political hacks. You defend that, then attack me for "insulting" him by calling him a liar? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| I'm a political hack then. GWB was terrible. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| GWB was much worse his first term than his 2nd. He was extremely ideological and put his buds in key positions instead of qualified people. Thankfully by 2005 he got a clue and wasn't so bad the last 3 years. Of course by that point the first 4-5 years had already done enough damage to make his "improved" performance insignificant. |
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