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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: UN overstated Aids risk, says specialist |
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This is something I've known for a long time. The UN and World Bank have doctors diagnose anybody with TB or pneumonia as also being HIV pos if they live in "at risk" parts of Africa. The AIDS lobby is alive and well, and protected behind a wall of political correctness.
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The United Nations has systematically exaggerated the scale of the Aids epidemic and the risk of the HIV virus affecting heterosexuals, claims a leading expert on the disease.
The numbers of people worldwide with HIV have been inflated and the UN Aids agency has wasted billions of pounds on education aimed at people who are unlikely to become infected, says Professor James Chin, a former senior Aids official with the World Health Organisation. He also accused UNAids of misleading and scaring the public by promoting 'myths' about the disease, such as that poorer people are most at risk, and of being guided in its approach by 'political correctness' rather than hard evidence.
Chin will detail his claims this week in London in a meeting hosted by the International Policy Network, a free-market think tank, where he will launch a new report, called 'The Myth of a General Aids Pandemic'. Despite his controversial reputation, Chin, a professor of clinical epidemiology at the University of California, Berkeley, will also explain his concerns when he meets Department for International Development officials who specialise in HIV and Aids.
'UNAids has systematically exaggerated the size and trend of the pandemic, as well as hyping the potential for HIV epidemics in general populations,' said Chin. 'UNAids's perpetuation of the myth that everyone is at risk of Aids has led to billions wasted on prevention programmes directed at general populations and youth who, outside of sub-Saharan Africa, are at minimal risk of exposure to HIV.'
Paul DeLay, UNAids' director of evidence, monitoring and policy, last night rejected Chin's claims and told The Observer he was 'living in the past'. Chin's criticisms are based on old counting systems that have been improved. However, UNAids has revised down its estimate of the number of people worldwide with HIV from more than 40 million to 33.2 million, he admitted. Chin claims the true figure is 'probably under 30 million but close to 30 million'.
DeLay said UNAids was right to warn people that HIV could 'bridge' into heterosexual populations from high-risk groups such as prostitutes, injecting drug users and bisexual men, and that education focused on those most at risk.
Chin's claims are part of a growing backlash at the Aids strategies employed by international aid agencies. Writing in the British Medical Journal last month, Dr Roger England, of the Health Systems Workshop in Grenada, said HIV should be downgraded in the fight to improve global healthcare for poorer people. It caused 3.7 per cent of mortality but received 25 per cent of international healthcare aid, he said. He urged switching �5bn a year of Aids funding to tackle other diseases and said Aids was not a unique global threat.
Official figures from the Health Protection Agency show that Aids had killed 17,932 people in the UK by the end of 2007, of whom 15,409 were men. The annual death rate has fallen from a high of 1,726 in 1995 to 445 last year, of whom 311 were men and 134 women. Similarly, the number of people being diagnosed with Aids has dropped from a peak of 1,853 in 1994 to 503 last year. However, growing numbers of people are being diagnosed as carrying the HIV virus. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/08/aids.health?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews
It just isn't possible for the number of Africans who are said to have HIV/AIDS to have it. HIV is nearly impossible to get via pen.is/vagina sex. What we see there is millions of people sick with being poor (diet, water, sanitation etc) who are being diagnosed as HIV positive.
So, Western donors and "development specialists" are the one directing the development and health money, and they are obsessed with AIDS and therefore the actual reasons these people are sick are ignored in favour or placating Western myths. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Chin claims the true figure is 'probably under 30 million but close to 30 million'.
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While 30 million isn't 40 million, it is still a lot of people. So what are you saying? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| So what are you saying? |
Maybe he's looking for some good arguments to get his gf to let him go bareback? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: UN overstated Aids risk, says specialist |
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| mises wrote: |
| However, UNAids has revised down its estimate of the number of people worldwide with HIV from more than 40 million to 33.2 million, he admitted. Chin claims the true figure is 'probably under 30 million but close to 30 million'. |
This just in, it's hard to get exact stats in Africa. Sort of a non news event?
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| It just isn't possible for the number of Africans who are said to have HIV/AIDS to have it. |
Why not?
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| HIV is nearly impossible to get via pen.is/vagina sex. What we see there is millions of people sick with being poor (diet, water, sanitation etc) who are being diagnosed as HIV positive. |
There is a very reliable HIV test. It would seem if people have AIDs like symptoms AND test positive for HIV, you could diagnose them as having AIDS.
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| So, Western donors and "development specialists" are the one directing the development and health money, and they are obsessed with AIDS and therefore the actual reasons these people are sick are ignored in favour or placating Western myths. |
Aren't they doing this because people in the west want the UN and governments to do something about the suffering from AIDS in Africa? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe he's looking for some good arguments to get his gf to let him go bareback? |
Although as hyper as this poster is about HIV and Moslems, I'm not sure he has a steady girlfriend. I'm sensing some pent-up energy there. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Unprotected insertive *beep* in vagina sex with an HIV pos partner is a 1/5000 chance of contraction for the man and a slight tad more for the women. It just isn't likely that millions of people have contracted it this way.
Also, the World Bank has Dr's simply attach HIV to diagnoses of TB and other sicknesses in the region.
Many of the areas where the virus is said to be most prevalent have not had widespread HIV testing done, but estimates based upon the rates of TB and computer models. The testing that is done tends to happen in prisons and rape-crises centers.
The point of this is that we are improperly allocating billions of dollars in resources that could be better spent. Vitamin D and zinc supplements for all the kids in sub Africa would cost around 60million a year and result in huge gains in overall health, but are not being bought. Instead, we are feeding retrovirals to people who we haven't tested to know if they need them, based on models that are inherently flawed. I know, white liberals care more about protecting dogma, but in this case we are actually doing significant harm. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Unprotected insertive *beep* in vagina sex with an HIV pos partner is a 1/5000 chance of contraction for the man and a slight tad more for the women. It just isn't likely that millions of people have contracted it this way. |
Damn, I thought I was kidding around with my speculations above ... who would have thought?
Let me know how many girls you can get to see things your way on this.
(I was going to make a joke about how many weekends I'd need to reach the 5000-mark. But that's really none of your business, you know.) |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Unprotected insertive *beep* in vagina sex with an HIV pos partner is a 1/5000 chance of contraction for the man and a slight tad more for the women. It just isn't likely that millions of people have contracted it this way. |
Damn, I thought I was kidding around with my speculations above ... who would have thought?
Let me know how many girls you can get to see things your way on this.
(I was going to make a joke about how many weekends I'd need to reach the 5000-mark. But that's really none of your business, you know.) |
Are you suggesting that hiv is the only STD to worry about?
Anyways, I was off the mark. It isn't 1/5000, it is 5/10000
HIV causes AIDS, the acquired immune deficiency syndrome. A poor immune system. Many of the symptoms of AIDS are very similar to the outcomes of being dirt poor. If you don't have clean drinking water, access to sanitary tools, clean food, medicine of any kind and you shit near where you eat/sleep you will get a poor immune system. We are over diagnosing HIV significantly in Africa and it is easy to see why. Some of the money we are spending on HIV would be better spent focusing on other projects. Diagnosing by symptoms and applying rates in at-risk groups to the wider society is leading to an improper allocation of medical and development cash. Dogma, and an improper way of measuring the likely number of infections are doing a great deal of harm.
There is a very cheap and quick HIV swab test that needs to be used by epidemiologists all over Africa in a proper study of the virus in that contentment. This by in large isn't being done. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there any evidence that such a virus as "HIV" even exists? Which is to say, has this alleged virus ever been isolated, crystallized and shown to be infectious, let alone shown to cause the various previously known and ever-changing set of conditions said to constitute "AIDS"? This would be the most basic requirement and yet as far as I know it has never happened. I've been looking into the AID$ industry for about 20 years now and it seems to me to be a fairly clearcut scam from start to finish. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Many of the symptoms of AIDS are very similar to the outcomes of being dirt poor. If you don't have clean drinking water, access to sanitary tools, clean food, medicine of any kind and you shit near where you eat/sleep you will get a poor immune system. |
While this is true, it should be pointed out that most of the symptoms of "AIDS" have nothing to do with a poor immune system. People who actually do have a poor immune system (such as those who have their immune system supprest after a transplant) suffer a generalized bacterial attack on the body and common opportunistic infections such as colds, not AIDS-type stuff such as Karposi's sarcoma. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Unprotected insertive *beep* in vagina sex with an HIV pos partner is a 1/5000 chance of contraction for the man and a slight tad more for the women. It just isn't likely that millions of people have contracted it this way. |
Right. That's because AIDS is also transmitted by using dirty needles, unsanitary hospital/mortuary conditions, anal sex, hacking off human limbs, encountering blood during war and violence. This doesn't exist in spades in Africa?
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Also, the World Bank has Dr's simply attach HIV to diagnoses of TB and other sicknesses in the region.
Many of the areas where the virus is said to be most prevalent have not had widespread HIV testing done, but estimates based upon the rates of TB and computer models. The testing that is done tends to happen in prisons and rape-crises centers. |
You do understand it's not that easy or cheap to zoom into Africa and test the whole population, right?
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| The point of this is that we are improperly allocating billions of dollars in resources that could be better spent. Vitamin D and zinc supplements for all the kids in sub Africa would cost around 60million a year and result in huge gains in overall health, but are not being bought. |
In your opinion. Vitamin D and zinc supplements are not advanced pharmaceuticals. Why can't the african nations take some of that massive aid we hand over and buy it themselves?
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| Instead, we are feeding retrovirals to people who we haven't tested to know if they need them, |
Are we really doing that? It would seem odd that a doctor will be handing over expensive drugs and not do a simple HIV test. An interesting *claim* but could you document this is indeed the practise?
Last edited by mindmetoo on Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| Is there any evidence that such a virus as "HIV" even exists? Which is to say, has this alleged virus ever been isolated, crystallized and shown to be infectious, let alone shown to cause the various previously known and ever-changing set of conditions said to constitute "AIDS"? This would be the most basic requirement and yet as far as I know it has never happened. I've been looking into the AID$ industry for about 20 years now and it seems to me to be a fairly clearcut scam from start to finish. |
Yes, the HIV virus has been isolated and photographed. Check the HIV page on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV
A photo right there. What is your objection to this? |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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Here's a big factor you've missed.
Mother to child transmission. That's around 25%
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Placental Inflammation and Perinatal Transmission of HIV-1.
Article
JAIDS Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes. 29(3):262-269, March 1, 2002.
Mwanyumba, Fabian *[P]; Gaillard, Philippe *[P]; Inion, Ingrid *; Verhofstede, Chris +; Claeys, Patricia *; Chohan, Varsha [P]; Vansteelandt, Stijn ++; Mandaliya, Kishorchandra [P]; Praet, Marleen [S]; Temmerman, Marleen *
Abstract:
Summary: The effect of placental membrane inflammation on mother-to-child transmission (MTCT) of HIV-1 is reported. Placentas from HIV-1-infected women were examined as part of a perinatal HIV-1 project in Mombasa, Kenya. Polymerase chain reaction analysis was used to test for HIV-1 in the infants at birth and at 6 weeks. The maternal HIV-1 seroprevalence was 13.3% (298 of 2,235). The overall rate of MTCT of HIV-1 was 25.4%; polymerase chain reaction analysis revealed that of the 201 infants 6.0% (12) were already HIV-1-positive at birth (intrauterine transmission) and 19.4% (39) were infected during the peripartum period or in early neonatal life (perinatal transmission). The prevalence of acute chorioamnionitis was 8.8%, that of deciduitis was 10.8%, and that of villitis was 1.6%. Acute chorioamnionitis was independently associated with peripartum HIV-1 transmission but not with in utero MTCT (17.9% vs. 6.7%, respectively; adjusted odds ratio, 3.9; 95% confidence interval, 1.2-12.5;p = .025). Other correlates of perinatal MTCT were presence of HIV in the genital tract and in the baby's oral cavity and a high maternal viral load in peripheral blood. The adjusted population attributable fraction of 12.8% (95% confidence interval, 1.5%-22.8%) indicated that approximately 3% of MTCT could be prevented if acute chorioamnionitis was eliminated. We suggest that further research on the role of antimicrobial treatment in the prevention of chorioamnionitis and the reduction of peripartum MTCT needs to be performed.
(C) 2002 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc. |
Also, don't forget that not only gay men have anal sex. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Mother to child, right. I left that out. It is quite a bit more efficient than "normal" sex.
And you are right that heterosexuals have anal sex. I'm not a "gays are dirty" guy. I'm all for them. Do what you want. However, the average gay man has many, many, many more parters per/life than most heterosexual man. You see from the stats that gay sex is really only marginally more dangerous but gay men are absolutely more prone to getting hiv. There is more to it than just efficiency of transmission.
Related:
http://tinyurl.com/6fwtxz |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Mother to child, right. I left that out. It is quite a bit more efficient than "normal" sex.
And you are right that heterosexuals have anal sex. I'm not a "gays are dirty" guy. I'm all for them. Do what you want. However, the average gay man has many, many, many more parters per/life than most heterosexual man. You see from the stats that gay sex is really only marginally more dangerous but gay men are absolutely more prone to getting hiv. There is more to it than just efficiency of transmission.
Related:
http://tinyurl.com/6fwtxz |
Anyway, do you disagree that war, rape, drug use, and unsanitary medical conditions does a lot in explaining the great number of HIV infections you claim are impossible to account for merely by vaginal sex?
Last edited by mindmetoo on Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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