Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Adventurer]

What do you think is the reason why both Japanese and South Korean learners of English after many years of English schooling can't string sentences together? It appears from what one user who taught at a public school in Japan said, that Japan talked about the need for a communicative approach, but Japanese scholars say there is still too much of an emphasis on translation and grammar skills. Some also say that Confucianism leads to both peoples to not express themselves in many cases in English. There is also ethnocentrism, and some believe ethnocentrism may discourage people to be in contact with native speakers of the other language, and if you don't attempt to connect with the other language via some kind of comprehensible input whether it's from movies, music, talking to people, then you won't have the competence needed to peform in the language. Japan is more open than Korea in some ways, but is that more superficial?

[EricB]

I tend to agree with the idea that a communicative approach could change things a lot in Korea. How many native English speakers learn writing and English grammar (as a subject) before or at the same time as we learn to speak? Its like reading physics books to learn how to ride a bicycle.
Another thing that I think is holding a lot of kids back is the parents. Everybody wants their children to speak English, and everybody knows that the current system isn't exactly the most effective. However, if a school tries to change anything from the norm, the parents get upset and intervene. I worked at a school that sold itself based off of the fact that it used a communicative approach. We had seminars for the parents and a bunch of testimonial materials to show the benefits and explain the differences between this approach and the approach that is standard in Korean ESL. As far as speaking is concerned (and this was a kindergarten) I would say the program was very successful. However, over the course of a few months, parent complaints and 'suggestions' turned our possibly innovative system into one that was basically the same as any other school's. They wanted immediate results and were never willing to consider the possibility that taking things more slowly could actually help in the long run.
Most schools (at least the ones I've worked at or been exposed to) lack the respect from the community that is necessary to do anything truly different. If we hadn't changed things, the parents would have simply removed their kids from the school and sent them someplace else. Until parents start to trust a school's experience more than their own, no significant change will come.

[schlotzy]

oh geez...don't even get me started on this problem. It's so frustrating sometimes to be in a public school where the kids have like 8 years of English education and can't say anything at all. I'll just say a little bit.


Most of the problems you stated above are accurate I believe. The lack of communicative approach, being too shy/scared to speak aloud, not watching English programs. There's also the fact that our classes often aren't taken seriously by students or other teachers. Students see it as "Fun" time because conversation often doesn't even have tests of a percentage of their grade. Other teachers use our classes to discipline students and even to practice for sports day.

Anyways I gtg to class..ill be interested to see replies.

[jvalmer]

I think a big factor is the economic prosperity of both countries. So the motivation just isn't there and they feel like English is forced on them. There are many other ways to earn a relatively comfortable living in Korea and Japan without having to learn another language. It's very similar to the lack of French speakers in western Canada despite of 8, or so, years of mandatory French classes 3 times a week, and most teachers are native French speakers.

[HalfJapanese]

I agree, too much emphasis on grammar and reading, and not enough on speaking.

I think using media such as TV/Music/Movie etc is a great way to get the student interested in learning a foreign language.

Loading up an mp3 player with music and listening to it until one can distinguish the syllables and words is a great way to improve listening, but requires concentrated listening..passive listening will not work.

If Korea/Japan had an all English cartoon channel for children and another animated show channel for older children, then that may spark some interest in the children. I say cartoon/animation b/c the voices are clear and not distorted like movies/tv that uses actors.

Using media can greatly motivate the students to learn grammar/reading, and speaking b/c all those forms of media are about direct input, which will eventually lead to output.

Also, not to mention that the ESL eduction is aim at students passing tests so they can get into a good school. So after passing the test and getting into a University, is there really any reason to continue learning English? I think not, (unless their major requires it).

[jiberish]

Let us not forget that a large amount of people only study English to pass the entry test for big companies. Then never use their English again. The Korean way is to study for tests rather than creative application of what they learned.

Also it has to do with crap teachers who can't teach English so they only teach vocabulary.

[HalfJapanese]

The root of the problem is that society is buying into this intense education routine that they are spending tons and tons of money for a childs education, which mean they have less kids, which adds onto the population crisis.

And like all forms of modern eduction, it does not allow the student to reach full maturity and independence, so they will always be depending on the system or some company for their income. They pretty much lose out on the experience of being a child/adolescent, which helps them reach full maturty.

The societies thinking is this: Lots of Studying => Getting into Good School => Getting a Good Job => Money => Marriage => Kids => Happiness...then the process repeats for the children.

I'd say this is a false paradigm that is perpetuated throughout society as a main benefit for the corporations and the government.

[AsiaESLbound]

Culture. If they were poor then maybe they would be motivated and pay better attention as to actually learn English outside of memorization. They sure have done exceedingly well in developing hardware manufacturing industries, but not developing culturally outside of what they already had have domestically. This doesn't include the veneer of T-shirts, sparkling bling, and Western themed things. Because they are not a poor under developed country, they are arrogant and closed minded to anything outside a fabricated set of standards that seem to elude us. Talk about living in a bubble.

With this said, the kids will be very different once all these old closed minded people are gone and the kids are grown. The Korea we'd like to see is probably 20 years in the future. If that were the case, then we'd not be needed or wanted here any longer. Next? Teaching the culture of America. Can we teach memorization of a culture so it can be mimicked?

[HalfJapanese]

Yes, a culture where the family is disconnect from each other (by design) through work, education, and not enough time to spend with each other to become a close knit family. On top of that there is the bombarding media that presents a false perspective of society and the outside world, which the views take in as reality (never seeing the entire picture).

So basically the false idea that financial affluence and materialism is the path to happiness, while disregarding what is most important and can't be bought with money, such as friends, family, etc.

[schlotzy]

[eamo]

[crossmr]

[Fishead soup]

Too much emphasis on multiple guess exams. They need to interview the students one by one from a third party not employed by the school.

Korean Teachers don't use enough of the target language in the classroom. Many only use the target language when quoting from the textbook. They do too much lecturing about grammar in Korean. Not enough student speaking time. When I introduce pairwork, Substitution drilling, or information gaps to the students. There are many problems
getting the students to do the activities that is because they are doing them for the FIRST time


The public school teachers have their hands tied with useless paperwork so they don't have time to plan effective lessons.

The textbooks are poor. Too much " I'm not happy with my appearance I want to grow taller". They need more real life situational English like
" May I see your passport"?

Most POE Supervisors live in Ivory towers.

Most Native Speakers don't stay long enough to develope a strong teaching style. They recieve poor training and get lots of bad advice from their Korean co-teachers. They are often being set up to fail .

[HalfJapanese]

I think part of the teachers job should be to get the student interested in learning and teaching them how to learn on their own. That way they won't be dependent on a class for motivation , but will use their own interests as motivation to self-study. Languages aren't something one can learned just in a course, but the student need to take it above and beyond the classroom. (Pretty much like any other course; Build up on the fundamentals taught in class).

[EricB]

('')This whole "I don't need grammar and vocabulary, just teach me to speak!" culture is the whole problem.

I find it hard to believe that you said this in reference to Korea as it seems to be the opposite sort of culture. Most Korean students that I have encountered memorize lists and lists of vocabulary. Likewise, they read grammar books and can apply grammar rules in simple exercises, but can they use that grammar to form a sentence? Not usually.

('')How do you string a sentence together? By using grammar and vocabulary.


This is true, but what I meant to say is that while most Americans (for instance) are able to speak using the basic grammatical rules of English at a relatively young age, they aren't able to do so because they read some grammar book in kindergarten. They are able to do it because they heard other people say those sentences over and over and over again.