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Do terrorists have any credibility any more?
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GwangjuParents



Joined: 31 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Do terrorists have any credibility any more? Reply with quote

So there was the MBA who tried to detonate some goofy contraption in New York... there was also Mr. Shoe Bomber ... and don't forget the doctors who drove the SUV into the airport in Scotland a while back, and now I read this, about a quote unquote "terrorist" group in Canada.

From the Globe:

"Following Ahmad's speech, Mr. Shaikh was tasked with asking all the participants what they would do to further the cause when they got home, he testified. One man said he would help recruit people, Mr. Ansari said he would offer his computer expertise and the 14-year-old participant said he would give his allowance money to the cause, Mr. Shaikh said."


I mean, why don't we just call the War on Terror over, as the terrorists really seem to lack any real credibility -or competence- these days.

Really, when the "Jihad" is being funded by some kid handing over the $5 he gets a week for doing the dishes and cleaning his room, it might be time to start calling it quits...
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, they really don't.

I'm not scared of terrorism. I'm scared of a government using terrorism as an excuse to expand itself.
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Depths of My Soul



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: In The Sun

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Do terrorists have any credibility any more? Reply with quote

GwangjuParents wrote:


I mean, why don't we just call the War on Terror over, as the terrorists really seem to lack any real credibility -or competence- these days.



Perhaps they need more help from the Government.


Like last time Wink
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVfyQyu9RY

Scared of these guys
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The Happy Warrior



Joined: 10 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any more?

Oh, you mean fear credibility, not moral credibility.

Yes, they do. The continuing and on-going proliferation of nuclear weapons means a well-organized cell of terrorists can annihilate a major North American city quite easily (but who are we kidding: it would be New York followed by DC).

However, Obama is taking this threat very seriously, and doing so while withdrawing from Iraq. So, while I don't exactly feel perfectly safe, I feel like the politicians are doing what they can, and focusing on whats important. So I am satisfied, and I don't worry about my safety on a daily basis (what's the point, anyway?).
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Do terrorists have any credibility any more? Reply with quote

GwangjuParents wrote:
So there was the MBA who tried to detonate some goofy contraption in New York... there was also Mr. Shoe Bomber ... and don't forget the doctors who drove the SUV into the airport in Scotland a while back, and now I read this, about a quote unquote "terrorist" group in Canada.

From the Globe:

"Following Ahmad's speech, Mr. Shaikh was tasked with asking all the participants what they would do to further the cause when they got home, he testified. One man said he would help recruit people, Mr. Ansari said he would offer his computer expertise and the 14-year-old participant said he would give his allowance money to the cause, Mr. Shaikh said."


I mean, why don't we just call the War on Terror over, as the terrorists really seem to lack any real credibility -or competence- these days.

Really, when the "Jihad" is being funded by some kid handing over the $5 he gets a week for doing the dishes and cleaning his room, it might be time to start calling it quits...


I don't think that's really the point.
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thomas pars



Joined: 29 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's really too bad we are spending so much effort on foreign threats. you should see the threats coming from organized domestic crime.

Truly frightening.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real terrorists are the CIA and our own government. So the question should be whether the government, which staged the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, and blatantly/deliberately lied to take us to war in Iraq has any credibility. I guess there are still a lot of totally clueless people who trust the government and the mainstream media out there, so the answer is probably yes. But people are starting to wake up.
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beck's



Joined: 02 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terrorism is a misnomer. The west is at war with radical Islam. Those attacking us cross borders and assume a very thin vaneer of nationality. They become part of the western country in which they live. They blend in. They are following, among other ideas, the thoughts of Sayyid Qutb. He was executed sometime in the 60s by the Egyptian dictator Nasser but his thoughts continue.

The London bombers, Hassan, the American born cleric hiding out in Yemen (his name escapes me now and I couldn't spell it anyway) and the TS bomber are all examples of this. They act like westerners. They blend in to western society but in actual fact they owe only allegience to radical Islamic ideas. They bring with them all of the failings of Islamic society. They are bent on the destruction of the west.

Western quilt and open borders make it very difficult for us to defend ourselves. We should be deporting radical immams and their followers by the plane loads. But we don't have the political will to do so. Those like visitorg, who spread conspiracist theories, play into the Islamists hands.

As the cleric in yemen said. 'jihad is as American as apple pie.'
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoL! The government is just another name for "our terrorist". How can you talk about credibility? That's like asking which is the better pedophile, my father or yours?

Seriously. Try looking at things with eyes wide open. This is what makes one really alive and free. Not bound or gagged or brainwashed. As Dylan sang,
"kill a little and they throw you in jail, kill a lot and they make you king".

DD
http://eflclassroom.com
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering when the scales are gonna tip and the Islamic Fundies finally figure out that the hate-filled crap the imams spew just isn't all that cool (nor serves themselves personally particularly well).

I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath.
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The Happy Warrior



Joined: 10 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:09 am    Post subject: Islamic Blowback is a Fallacy Reply with quote

Didn't know where to put this, I feel this blog post fits better in this thread than in its own thread.

The Myth of the Terrorist Revenge Attack

Quote:
Bruce Hoffman, the terrorism expert (now at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars), told me that the Western media, by implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) accepting the notion that terror attacks are brought about by a immediately-previous Western response to terrorism, propagates the self-serving narrative of Islamists. "The media can make it look as if the terror groups are simply defending themselves from some provocation. The question is one of original provocation. When you focus on this sort of causality, we accept the terrorists' framing." He went on to say, "No terrorism group has the word 'terrorism' in its name. They see themselves as reluctant fighters, always retaliating, never initiating."

So, a proposal: The next time a young Muslim male attempts to make mayhem in New York or elsewhere, and, once captured, tells the authorities that he was seeking revenge for some specific act of American aggression, we should do our best to avoid repeating [a terrorist's] proximate-causality excuse-making and report that his act was undertaken on behalf of a larger movement that seeks the overthrow of moderate Muslim governments, the restoration of the caliphate, the eradication of Western influence in the Muslim world, the oppression of women, the annihilation of gays and Jews, and so on. This approach would have the benefit, at least, of accuracy.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, a proposal: The next time a young Muslim male attempts to make mayhem in New York or elsewhere, and, once captured, tells the authorities that he was seeking revenge for some specific act of American aggression, we should do our best to avoid repeating [a terrorist's] proximate-causality excuse-making and report that his act was undertaken on behalf of a larger movement that seeks the overthrow of moderate Muslim governments, the restoration of the caliphate, the eradication of Western influence in the Muslim world, the oppression of women, the annihilation of gays and Jews, and so on. This approach would have the benefit, at least, of accuracy.


The writer is settting up a false dilemna here. It's possible for a guy to be both a) anti-western in general, and b) motivated to commit a particular attack against the west in retaliation for a certain incident.

Timothy McVeigh subscribed to an overall ideology that promoted hatred of the federal government. However, it's probably also the case that he wouldn't have put that ideology into action in Oklahoma City had he not been upset specifically about what happened in Waco(regardless of whether or not you think his interpretation of those events was correct). A responsible news outlet should report both.

(And no, I'm not interested in having a debate about whether or not McVeigh was a government agent.)
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The Happy Warrior



Joined: 10 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
So, a proposal: The next time a young Muslim male attempts to make mayhem in New York or elsewhere, and, once captured, tells the authorities that he was seeking revenge for some specific act of American aggression, we should do our best to avoid repeating [a terrorist's] proximate-causality excuse-making and report that his act was undertaken on behalf of a larger movement that seeks the overthrow of moderate Muslim governments, the restoration of the caliphate, the eradication of Western influence in the Muslim world, the oppression of women, the annihilation of gays and Jews, and so on. This approach would have the benefit, at least, of accuracy.


The writer is settting up a false dilemna here. It's possible for a guy to be both a) anti-western in general, and b) motivated to commit a particular attack against the west in retaliation for a certain incident.


True.

Quote:

Timothy McVeigh subscribed to an overall ideology that promoted hatred of the federal government. However, it's probably also the case that he wouldn't have put that ideology into action in Oklahoma City had he not been upset specifically about what happened in Waco(regardless of whether or not you think his interpretation of those events was correct). A responsible news outlet should report both.


Waco probably influenced McVeigh more than American action X in the Mideast affected a group of terrorists that target Americans. Although the New York 'Bomber' was, like McVeigh, a lone wolf, so in this case a single prior incident may have been decisive.

Anyway, I still agree emotively with the blogger. Especially since the bombers all have come from the same area in the world (where are the bombers from Central America responding to American action X in Central America)?
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Arthur Dent



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: Kochu whirld

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
No, they really don't.

I'm not scared of terrorism. I'm scared of a government using terrorism as an excuse to expand itself.


I agree. And further, the implied lack of trust of its own citizens and the erosion of trust between individuals.
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