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pikachun1
Joined: 09 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: legal action |
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Can employers sue teachers (E2 and F4) for breaking contracts and other things since they had to pay for things like housing? any help, please?
Last edited by pikachun1 on Tue May 11, 2010 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Short answer = NO
under labor law, no labor contract with an employee can violate the law. We are not subcontractors, we are employees.
labor law specifically precludes any clause that would cause the employee to be liable for such things.
the employee didn't rent the housing and is therefore not liable.
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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The correct answer = YES.
An employer can sue an employee for any damages incurred as a result of a breach of contract by the employee. This has nothing to do with labor law. This is contract law. Labor laws that prohibit certain penalties from being automatic within a contract do NOT preclude suing and collecting for damages for those very same amounts.
Likewise, the employee can sue the employer for any damages incurred as a result of breach of contract.
The damages would have to be quite severe to make it worth the cost of such an exercise. However, many legal proceedings and battles begin as a result of emotion, anger and illogic, so small unwinnable legal actions can also occur.
Former teachers and former bosses often flee legal proceedings, so are difficult to locate, proceedings are lengthy, proof must be presented to show what the actual damages were and that the respondant actually caused or contributed to the damages and then, if some amount of damages is awarded, come the problems of actually collecting.
If you break your contract and quit without notice and another teacher takes over your classes - that's breach of contract - but are there any damages? If no students are lost, there is no loss of income. Your boss no longer has to pay you, and your housing costs (for example) would have been incurred in any case. Probably zero damages.
OTOH - if you break your contract and quit without notice at a school where there is no other foreign teacher available to take over your classes and 100 students are lost at $100/month per student for two months until a new teacher arrives, the provable immediate loss of $20,000 (less offsets for costs not incurred, plus the loss of students who never return) means that you could face a large winnable lawsuit. There still remains the difficulty of finding you, time, aggravation, and the fact that most young teachers are in no position to pay damages, so you could still get away with your transgression.
Lawsuits for damages can occur over actions by one individual that cause injury or financial damage to another - torts, accidental or deliberate damage or injury, defamation, breach of contract ... there are many ways to become financially and legally liable for damages and possible civil law proceedings.
The best defense against such legal action is not to cause damage to other people. |
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pikachun1
Joined: 09 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Differing opinions..which is right? |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Contracts usually have a 2 month notice thing for employees. So, if you give it, then how can they try to get you for the rest of the year?
Even if you don't it might not be worth it. They used to have things like letter of release, but that seems to be changing.
I was threatened I would be sued if I said anything bad about an organization running the last school I worked at. If I go back to Korea, I may tell the school how I really feel about the organization.
Are they going to sue me while I am in China? It would be interesting to see how they can pull that off. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| pikachun1 wrote: |
| Differing opinions..which is right? |
Technically, the second. Practically, the first.
Schools COULD sue you for breach of contract**, (1) IF you did, in fact, breach your contract AND (2) they can PROVE damages. However, the likelihood of a school actually filing the papers with the courts is slim to none. Chances drop to a cold day in hell once you are already gone from the country.
Of course, lawsuits (for breach of contract and/or labor or pension violations) in the other direction are much more common. I've filed twice myself (and won).
**lawsuits of other kinds are possible as well, for instance, defamation, slander and libel.... but again, the school must PROVE damages in addition to the loss of reputation. Schools COULD do so, but they don't. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| Contracts usually have a 2 month notice thing for employees. So, if you give it, then how can they try to get you for the rest of the year? |
You can't. Contract law protects you.
| Quote: |
| I was threatened I would be sued if I said anything bad about an organization running the last school I worked at. |
And they could do so under Korea's draconian defamation laws. Just ask Mike Breen. Samsung is suing him for $1million for writing a joke about them in the paper.
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| Are they going to sue me while I am in China? It would be interesting to see how they can pull that off. |
If you're never going to come back to Korea, go nuts. But if you libel them, and you come back, they MIGHT decide it's worth their while to go after you. Unlikely, knowing how tightfisted school owners are, but if the libel is serious enough they just might. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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They could sue,
They might win,
They can't enforce it. You can't get blood out of a stone and it is not collectible in other countries.
If you leave they can't touch you and they can't keep you here to force payment.
In practical terms... just walk away... and the housing issue is a non-issue and not winnable.
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Reminds me of a Korean friend who sued some guy for a hit and run on his car.
He won the case. That took a year of court appearances. The defendant kept making up excuses pushing the court date back, and the courts kept granting continuances.
After winning his case, my friend has been fighting tooth and nail to get the hit and run guy to pay. You would think its simple, my friend won, the other guy has to pay. Winning your case is the easy part. Getting your money is the hard part. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
T
. There still remains the difficulty of finding you, time, aggravation, and the fact that most young teachers are in no position to pay damages, so you could still get away with your transgression.
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To say nothing of the fact that many small business/schools "cook the books" (have two sets...one for the MOE and one for the school). This could come out in court, hence why some schools may be reluctant to force the issue regardless.
For example, out of all the hundreds of contracts I have reviewed in the contract sticky thread only a few dozen have offered pension. And nearly all have contained illegal clauses of some kind or another. Slimy hakwon owners are not eager to have the light of day shone on their dealings.
Which is likely another reason we rarely hear of a school suing a teacher...although it has been known to happen. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| They can't enforce it. You can't get blood out of a stone and it is not collectible in other countries. |
They can enforce it if you're a foreigner. They can just sit you in Immigration lockup until you pay. If you don't have the money in your accounts here, then you sit and wait until you can have the money wired from home.
Just ask the two Canadians who bashed a Korean's head in in a bar fight and had to pay $25,000 in blood money. They were in lockup for a couple weeks until the money from home came in.
Now, if the foreigner wins a case against a Korean, collecting is much more difficult. They can transfer all their assets and holdings to someone else's name or just take off in the night and disappear. You won't see a dime in either case.
Thankfully the defendants in my two cases weren't THAT dishonest, and I was able to get my money (although the courts did have to send their officers armed with post it notes, confiscating their household belongings to pay the court-ordered money) |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| He said "in other countries" |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
| He said "in other countries" |
Yes, and in my post WAY above, I also said the same thing: "Chances drop to a cold day in hell once you are already gone from the country." |
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