Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mayorgc]

Is the rampant juvenile cheating strictly a Korean thing? Is it an Asian thing? Is it something that's done by kids all over the world?

I can't even play simple bingo games anymore; the moment I look away, the kids will switch their cards. Even when I tell them that I'm onto them, they still make attempts to cheat. With 20 kids, I had over 10 of them trying to play the switcheroo.

If I tell my students that there's gonna be a test the next day, 3/4 of them will show up with cheat sheets.

Are Western kids the same? I wasn't a goody goody growing up, but I sure as heck didn't try to cheat at every possible situation. Have things changed?

I don't just have 1 or 2 kids who are chronic cheaters, I've got about +40%

I'm not bashing Asian/Korean culture, I know cheats are everywhere, but I'm shocked sometimes at how blatant some of these attempts are.

[jmuns]

at my school they should encourage cheating more, it would be easier on the teachers. the kids in my school all did awful on their some parts of their english midterms. the solution, well thats easy. the teachers just went through all the tests, and accepted any answer the kids gave for about 9 questions. if they wrote anything down they got it correct. problem solved. the kids all went from 70% to over 85%. now the teachers feel good and so do the students. if they were allowed to openly cheat there wouldnt have been the two days of stress trying to figure out how to doctor the grades.

[8 years down]

I think kids cheating is quite normal. As a teacher it pissed me off but I did similar things when I was 12...

Plus, it's a highly competitive environment where your score means a lot more than your ability to critically think, problem solve, or be creative.

[Senior]

How does switching cards benefit the bingo player?

[thegadfly]

In my experience, fewer kids "cheat" in Korea than in the US, but more kids plagarize...and the Korean kids seem to sincerely not realize that plagarism is a type of cheating (and I really think that the attitude toward plagarism being ok is rooted in the Confucian educational tradition, but that is just my opinion)....

My American kids were also more ingenious about cheating...or else my Korean kids are SO good that I never detect them...in any case, I was often impressed by the ingenuity of my US cheaters, whereas I am frankly disappointed in the cheaters I have seen in Korea. I catch them, and I am like, "Really? You insult me with THIS? Notes on your eraser? Puh-lease!"

You asked, "why do the kids cheat so much?" The answer is "because they're kids." Testing boundaries and exploring levels of control over one's environment, and the people in it, are perfectly natural behaviors. It happens everywhere, though not always in the same ways. Kids cheat to see if they can -- if they discover that they can't, or that the penalties for cheating outweigh the benefits, they stop.

[mayorgc]

[MalFSU1]

The cheating thing can be really annoying. You plan out what you think will be a fun enriching activity, which ends up falling flat because the kids can't play fair. I played a flashcard game with students(with absolutely no prize involved) where students had to close their eyes and I removed card, they then had to say which card was removed. I'd say about 75% weren't fully shutting their eyes or were looking through their fingers. I guess this is just the way it is.

[egrog1717]

Do what I did... Crack down on all forms of cheating across the board by giving out zeros...

I work at an elementary school... When I first got here the kids would literally be sitting in groups for their tests, talking to each other, flipping through their books for answers, etc etc... Two or three months in I sat down with my co-teachers and told them exactly what we were going to do to stop it, and set a system in place that they can continue after I'm gone...

Now we divide the kids up during tests, some of my CTs will ask the kids to put up folders between them and the student next to them, and anyone caught talking or looking at someone else's paper during the test has "Zero - No Cheating" written on their test paper (during the test... and I make them sit there quietly while I finish the test with the rest of the kids before I'll collect it)... After the test is over I'll ask the student to stay after class and have my CT explain (in Korean) why that student(s) got a zero, and what not to do next time...

Sure I made a couple of third graders cry along the way because they were talking during a test, but by God it's nice to have some piece of quiet while I'm trying to give a dictation test

[Fishead soup]

If you think its bad in Korea try working in The Middle East.
Space all desks apart.
Turn desks around so the opening is on the opposite side.

[rkc76sf]

At the foreign language high school, I had one student that cut and pasted his homework from the internet. Suddenly big words were being used when he had never used them before. When I saw the word "Seoullite", I thought 'hmmm...' so I cut and pasted the article into a search engine and found it in it's entirety. I gave him a zero and the k-teacher was kind of dismayed but understood. I don't know if that factored into his final grade, the k-teacher says so but who knows what kind of formula they use to figure it out or to tell me it matters when they just ignore those scores. It's just in the culture I guess, I don't know.

[schwa]

I dont give tests or grades but I have observed that the kids will employ any shortcut at hand to arrive at a task's conclusion as quickly as possible. Human nature, I'd guess -- the prospect of extra goof-off time or appearing bright.

So I consider that when I plan lessons. I find information gap activities effectively useless. I have large classes & partners just show the answers, so I never use them.

With writing activities, I actually dont mind if lower level students just copy better students answers. I'll still call on them to read answers & they at least had the benefit of transcribing something when otherwise they might have just been off in la-la land. Theres a kind of trickle-down effect that has all the students somewhat engaged in the task at hand, considering interest & ability. Some copiers, over time, become creators.

I've monitored many exams (middle school) & never caught any egregious cheating. Anecdotally, I've heard of some exam cheating schemes here. One involved a top student placing his right foot in different spots under his desk to indicate a, b, c, d, or e. That got busted pretty easily though when numerous students had identical results, including all the same errors. In another school girls had written answers on their thighs, knowing a male monitor couldnt ask them to raise their skirts. But a suspicious woman teacher figured that one out.

[8 years down]

Haha, if you ever teach an essay writing class enjoy that. You'll get 3 types of essays handed in:

1. The honest, grammatical nightmare essay.

2. The translator essay. (kid basically types what he wants to say in Korean, throws it into an online translator and copies the results.) These are actually hilarious to read, and the student will be shocked when you instantly know it's the work of a translator.

3. The plagiarism essay. Another, instantly recognizable essay that will shock them when you call them out on it.

It's funny how much cheating goes on, especially when one of their public school subjects is "ethics." Anyways, most kids cheat on something at some point so I don't get too worked up about it.

[Senior]

I have never been able to understand the shock and amazement that comes when you point out someones translator answer is complete gibberish. Have they never noticed that translating the other way, produces gibberish in their own language.

I guess they spend so much on those dictionaries that they expect them to be some what useful. Oh well. At least they are good for music and watching movies.

[atwood]

It's only cheating if you get caught. Otherwise, it's cunning.

While it's really nothing to get worked up about, it is frustating to realize that by cheating or taking short cuts to finish assignments as quickly as possible the students aren't learning very much. They are very results oriented from an early age and have a difficult time learning the value of the process.

[schwa]