Korean Job Discussion Forums

[patapata]

Here's an open thread for women of all ages living in Korea who want to have some honest discussions about how it is to be a "Western" woman living and working here. Some possible topics:

- Meeting people and making friends-- how to find genuine, honest-to-goodness types amidst the...er, interesting folks who seem to dominate the scene
- Reactions to and experience with the "fever" (in male friends and coworkers...or maybe even other women?)
- How to cope and maintain your self worth in a society (not to mention Koreans you know personally) that is constantly telling you that you are fat, ugly, worthless, etc...even more than back home.
- Your best coping strategy for the most difficult of days?

Feel free to add!

*Ladies only, please *

(or, if you are male and you'd like to respond to something, please be respectful)

[mulligc3]

That's sad that you feel like that.
I enjoyed my time there but I have to say I was dying to leave so that I could come home again and as you say feel like a woman, dress up and go out where there were men that I could possibly be attracted to. I amn't into Asian men and meeting other male expats was a rare occurence, nevermind cutting down that circle again to those who weren't trying to get with a Korean girl or play the field with them.
I really do think Korea has more to offer single men then women.

[amcnutt]

I am leaving for Seoul in about a month, and I am scared that I will have a similar experience as those who have polled so far, but I'm trying to stay positive!
I'm not gorgeous but people tell me I'm a pretty girl, so I hope my self-esteem doesn't go crashing when I arrive there.
Also, my interviewing director told me during the job interview that she thinks I am so pretty and look very warm and friendly, which was quite a compliment and something I wasn't expecting in a serious job interview. If she was like that, do you think that most other Koreans will not have a problem with my appearance?
I know physical attributes have a high value in their society in particular, but I want to remain confident no matter what people may say about my looks - good or bad.
Hold your heads up ladies, take care of yourself and have confidence no matter what others say!

[Katty89]

I'm not in Korea yet, but I am quite active in the Korean community in my city in Canada.
What I hated at first was the "friends" who felt the need to constantly tell me that I am fat because obviously, I must have had no idea that I am overweight. If I knew, I wouldn't be because I'd spend all my time doing everything I could to not be fat!!!! And I still hate the guys who think a western girl must be easy and a fat one is even more easy because of course nobody would ever want her. But I do have a Korean boyfriend who is the reason why I am going to Korea and I do enjoy seeing the look on Korean's faces when I tell them that.
I'm hoping in Korea, it will take less time to find some real friends and not have to deal with jerks. It took over a year to find my way here.

[patapata]

I've lived in other countries, in Asia even, and this is the worst situation I've been in socially (so far). amcnutt, you'll see once you get here that there is an extremely cosmetic standard of beauty (e.g.- constantly looking at oneself in the mirror, caking on makeup, an overwhelming majority of women have had plastic surgery) and many western guys drooling all over the place. The mere fact that appearance came up in the interview is a tip off that things are a bit different over here. I feel like an oddball at some kind of dating match place at work sometimes, since the majority is white western males and Korean females flirting away. Not that offices back home are much different, but I do miss the variety (age range, cultures, etc.).

Your experience may differ depending on your own appearance (e.g.- if you are a tall, thin blonde) and how used you are to this sort of thing (e.g.- living in a city like LA). Some women I meet seem perfectly fine regardless of whether or not they fit the cosmetic beauty ideal, others less so (even if they are closer to that ideal). It seems that those who have some kind of connection/support system (friends, bf/husband, etc.) fare a bit better than those of us who are really going it alone...

I'm having a bad week here, unfortunately...it happens. I've only been here about six weeks myself, so I'm looking forward to developing some coping strategies to make it through my time here.

I have extremely low expectations for dating here...so right now the focus is on finding some good friends to enjoy what's wonderful about Korea and take our minds off the not-so-wonderful.

[mulligc3]

Looks are important in Korea. The girls on the subway are hilarious with their mirrors. I was told after an open class by some guy from the Education Board that I was attractive and I was asked was I single.
I mean that is a compliment I suppose but so inappropriate. I was taken aback. I told him he was attractive too out of awkwardness.

[Perceptioncheck]

In Korea, I never felt particularly bad about my appearance but perhaps I'm just happily oblivious. Some Koreans called me 'beautiful' while others called me 'fat' and, at the end of the day, I just figured they cancel each other out and I should ignore the whole lot.

I guess it depends on where your feelings of self-worth come from. I was lucky enough to have a partner when I was in Korea, and like someone said, this probably made a difference, although I've never really attached my self-worth solely to my physical appearance. Not at home, and certainly not in Asia. I think that would be a recipe for disaster.

In Korea, I knew more than a few men who were interested in being around a woman - regardless of ethnicity - who could hold an intelligent conversation and came from a similar cultural background. I also knew a few men with The Fever, but more often than not they tended to be misogynistic bores - the kind of guy who thinks he's really clever when he uses words like 'feminazi'; the kind of guy you don't want to hang around anyway, unless you enjoy being lectured to and condescended at.

Of course, there are going to be difficult days wherever you are. I had one kid who thought it was absolutely, uproariously hilarious to call me 'pig' every time she saw me. Man, I hated that kid. It was embarrassing, you know? I mean, I'm not a pig but I could feel all these other little beady eyes on me, waiting to see how soon I'd loose my cool. But then I found out about this kids incredibly messed up home life, and I felt stupid for letting her get to me even a little bit. The people who feel the need to throw stupid insults around are often more pucked up than you can imagine.

Well, that's what I tell myself, anyway!

Also, I've been floating around Asia for a while, and for the first few years I just did not find Asian men attractive at all. But then it was like a lightning bolt hit me, and all of a sudden I got it. Asian men can be incredibly hot. Is it the cheekbones? Is it their physique? I don't know, but I like it!

[PatrickGHBusan]

Good topic.

As someone who has been married to a Korean woman...I will take exception to the following: an overwhelming majority of women have had plastic surgery

Many Korean woman have had plastic surgery but probably not an overwhelming majority and certainly not my wife.

The frustrations expressed here are however quite valid and it is too bad some women go through this in Korea but lets not lump any group (foreign or Korean) in one large convenient category.

In conclusion, a short story about my personal experiences dating my wife when I first met her. The most grief I got was not from older Korean males like I had expected, it was from some Western women, namely a couple of co-workers and some people we met on weekends at the bar or other places.

I met my wife way back in 1997 after I arrived. I (sorry to dissapoint) did not drool all over the place...I just met her and it clicked. We married the next year and now have 2 kids and a happy marriage 13 years later.

I worked with 8 other foreign teachers back then, 5 of which were women. 4 of those were the source of the comments I will relate below. These were well educated women from multi-cultural cities back in Canada and the US.

These comments ranged from: oh we know...you could not get a date back home so you got a local....

You could not handle a 'real' woman (real I suppose being them)

You got yourself a tiny submissive make up doll (nice one from this particular co-worker who ranted all the time about racism and how bad it was everywhere).

Then there were the two women that hung around with our group on weekends...they never even said hello to my wife when she was there...just completely ignored her and even made jokes about her thinking she could not understand.

So while some of us foreign men are indeed knuckle draggers...many more are not but we still have deal with the snap judgement when we date or marry Korean women.

Conversely, while some or even many korean women have plastic surgery, many more do not.

Finally, western women do stand out in Korea, especially if they are tall and big. This is easy to see and easy to understand and I can see how it would be frustrating...

One of my female co-workers at my second hakwon (Canadian) was slightly overweight, she had a tyroid gland problem...she looked at a piece of cake from across a room and she would gain weight. I remmember her dying inside looking at our hakwon receptionist (Korean woman, rather tall) stuffing her face with snacks on most afternoons yet remain maddeningly thin.

she took that hard and took it harder when her students said 'teacher fat'...even if male and female teachers alike got such comments from time to time.

[hwarangi]

For me, the only annoying thing is when Western men like to tell me what I'm thinking; and that what I am thinking is about them.

[nomad-ish]

i voted, "why should i feel any different?"

i don't really understand the point of this poll; you encounter judgmental people wherever you go. granted, they are more outspoken about it in korea, but i've often found that they tend to compliment western foreigners more than insult them. sometimes these things don't sound like compliments, they just sound weird (ie. big eyes, small face), but if you ask them they'll be quick to tell you it's a good thing.

the only thing i will agree with is that as a western women in korea (if you're not interested in korean guys), the dating pool is really small, but not impossible.

anyways, you just have to keep up your self-confidence, not take things so seriously, and learn to find the humor in it all. sometimes i'll sit on the train and try to spot who's had double eyelid surgery, or look at girls' feet/shoes (with those heels, there are some incredibly banged up looking feet). ok, that's a little weird, but kills some time on long subway rides

[Ukon]

I'm a dude, but I've helped a few Korean guys get western women....

From the korean guys I know...the beauty standard towards white women skews VERY favorably....they at least want to give it a try.

I had a decent but not amazing looking friend who was very forward and outgoing, she pretty much got a date with any Korean guy she wanted(rich, handsome, famous)....

Problem is Korean guys are pretty shy, you gotta be forward.

Now if your talking about Western expat foreigners who aren't soldiers....yeah....your gonna have to bring your A game and be fairly attractive.....Asian fever will hit everyone who comes here over time.... If you like soldiers, there are plenty in certain cities...dating them isn't hard....especially once you get into the military social circles.

And at least give Korean guys a try....some have lived abroad for awhile and do know how to date a western girl. Those Koreans I've met are pretty cool, well traveled, educated, and usually well-off. Try hitting the nicer clubs in gangnam and you'll find the type of guys you want. There is always korean americans too.

Most of the foreign women I've met here seem to be having a good time

[frankhenry]

[frankhenry]

"Something's missing since I came here...I want to feel like a real woman again."

Put the donuts down. Exercise.

[DrugstoreCowgirl]

I'm not attracted to Asian men so the potential dating pool is very small. I do miss having a lot of people to choose from.

[MalFSU1]

I was lucky enough to come here with my boyfriend, I can't really imagine trying to find someone to date over here, especially being in a pretty small city. All the younger Korean guys I come across at work just run the other way when they see me, and at bars and restaurants everyone's all grouped up and not very social with anyone they didn't come there with. The only guys who have confidence to flirt with me(who are unaware I am not single) are older Korean guys like the maintenance man at my school. It seems most foreign guys are have googly eyes for the slim and dolled up Korean girls. This all makes for a pretty lame situation for single gals I can imagine.

My main gripe about being a women in a smaller city in Korea is finding Korean women with who I feel I can be myself around. I consider myself pretty intelligent, but find when I am out with Korean girls my age the discussion is so shallow and to be honest pretty boring. I really miss the girl talk I can have with my girls back home. This is especially true talking about men and "adult" things. I know some of the girls are not totally innocent, but getting them to talk about "adult" things is next to impossible....it's very kiss and don't tell.

ok gripe over! have a nice weekend!