Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Aelric]

So, I have a class that was acting like a pack of dogs, yelling and screaming, about 10 minutes into the lesson. I finally gave up the usual means and yelled "shut up", then went on a tear about how I've given two years of my life to teach them, that they (the students) are the only thing keeping me here and that I just want them to try harder. I asked me Co-teacher to translate that for me and sh said, "No, I won't translate that. Go home". I looked at her in utter shock and just walked back to the office. Later, I was approached by all the co-teachers, they asked me what happened, I told them, and they said they had to talk to the vice-principal and lodge a complaint at the MOE.

So, my question is this: Am I done? Even if I'm not fired, have my coteachers effectively booted me? Am I wrong to think that expressing disappointment in the students would maybe motivate them more? Now I'm sitting here, waiting for the ax to drop. 4 months shy of 2 years, so close to the bonus. So close to the previous experience magic number of 2. It would be a shame. And really, is this ridiculous, or am I? I dunno if I've been in Korea too long, but I'm feeling guilty, but I logically can't understand why, as I did nothing wrong in my eyes.

[NYC_Gal]

Hmm this is tricky. I'd say, bring in some snacky things for EVERYONE (teachers, VP, P, admin people), then ask to speak to the coteachers in a group setting and apologize. You don't have to mean it, but you'd be humble in their eyes, which looks good. Tell them some excuse (family crisis at home) and that you should have been more professional, because in their culture it isn't common, but you made a mistake and that it won't happen again. You are a human, not a robot, and your trouble at home made you emotional that day, and that you are truly sorry, blah blah etc... You've only got 4 months to go, so a little butt kissing and apologizing could only help.

[Ramen]

Where was your co-teacher while all these things were happening in the classroom?

[Senior]

I'm not really sure you did anything wrong. Did you say anything inappropriate? I call my students zoo animals all the time. I have gone off before, but just don't have that level of caring anymore. Plus it is a waste of time, because they find it hilarious.

This whole thing will probably blow over.

[oskinny1]

Seriously, what the hell was your co- doing while the kids were going crazy?

You'll be fine. What are they going to complain about? That you yelled at the students? You can just go file a complaint about every teacher that has hit their students.

They won't fire you, it will make them look bad.

[Senior]

[wesharris]

I'm wondering the same thing here.
The CT should've been in there supporting.
I'd say she was in the wrong NYC . Not the other way around.
4 Months left? Don't apologize, make the CT lose some face for a change.

[thegadfly]

Well, from what you have described, I do not see a reason for teachers to lodge a complaint with your principal or refuse to translate for you...which suggests to me that you said something else in addition to what you have presented here, or are cleaning up the wording a bit....

Everyone has a bad day, and everyone snaps. Honestly, I WISH that my classes hadn't understood what I had said the times that it has happened to me -- a co-teacher refusing to translate may actually be a blessing. One bad day, or even a string of them, doesn't make a bad teacher -- but how one recovers and reacts to them in the long run is the mark of a good teacher....

If your kids do not care about you, then your rant/plea to get them to work harder will not be effective. If your kids DO care about you, then your rant that shames them will not be as effective as other, more positive means of motivation -- losing it and ranting is always a lose/lose situation -- again, it is perfectly human to do so, and anyone that teaches for a while will probably have at least one classroom meltdown, so don't be TOO hard on yourself...but recognize that it was a mistake to take it that personally, and to bring the fight to the kids.

You weren't right, but unless you are leaving out big chunks of what was said, you weren't wrong enough to warrant a firing....

If an administrator talks to you about it, keep your cool, but you can talk about how strongly you feel about your students, how strongly you want them to learn and succeed, and these strong feelings led you to speak too harshly to them -- your emotions got the better of you. All of this is true, according to what you have written...and it has been my experience that Korean administrators respond well to passionate teachers. They don't expect it from foreign teachers as much (not arguing if they are right or wrong, and pulling only from anecdotal evidence), so when they DO find themselves face-to-face with a passionate foreign teacher, it takes them by surprise.

In my own experience, one such confrontation actually led to greater support from my co-teachers and the higher-ups -- they really hadn't thought we were on the same side.

[Countrygirl]

Is it possible that the co-teachers think that you were swearing when you said "shut up". I honestly don't know what you did wrong.

I often yell at my classes and did it twice today. Grade 6 is getting out of control. My co-teacher thanked me (and I thanked her for supporting me...I'm so grateful for her). I know that this isn't unusual because I've heard of (and heard) homeroom teachers yelling at their classes quite often. Why would you yelling at the class be considered something to lodge a complaint about (unless it was you leaving the class which was understandable for you to do considering the co-teacher's 'go home' remark.)

I don't want to assume anything but is it possible that this one co-teacher doesn't like you? She sounds very rude and lazy since she can't control the class.

If the 2 year mark means that much to you, then just go in, teach the lesson irregardless of the class attitude, and go home. Or you could be more confrontational and ask the co-teacher to control the classroom so that you can teach.

But if you've been a good teacher, I don't see why they would fire you unless they've been waiting for an excuse to do it. Even then, they have to give you 2 notices before they can fire you (check with the labour board to be sure.)

I hope this works out for you.

[oldfatfarang]

From what you've written, you did nothing wrong. What's the problem here? You didn't belt the hell out the students like a Korean teacher would have in this situation.

Sometimes you just have to tell kids that their behavior isn't acceptable. That's called teaching. Every teacher knows that kids can't be perfect everyday - and every student knows that teachers can't be perfect every day, too.

So what if you co-teacher lost face. That's the co-teacher's problem. They weren't doing their job by providing you with an academic environment for you to help the kids practice English.

I've highlighted what to say to your school if they continue to push this issue.

Be firm, polite, and good luck.

Interestingly, I had a similar situation today. A class of high school students just went bananas this morning. They couldn't be bothered to do any group/pair tasks, they were talking on cell phones, playing go stop, and talking to each other in Korean etc. So I after 25 minutes I asked the co-teacher to tell them to leave the room (because "Students can't behave like that in an English class"). I also told her that we'll be having a meeting with the VP and other co-teachers next week - because I won't be teaching these kids for a year if they continue to act like that.

[Fishead soup]

I got so pissed off at a class the other day. Eventually I told them if they did the dialogue properly I would let them watch the music video for" Chitty Chitty Bang Bang". After lots of trouble I finally got most of the students doing the task. It was finally worth the trouble seeing the look on their faces when confronted with Dick Van Dyke and the flying car.

[Aelric]

The gist of it is that my co-teachers have a serious hangup about the use of the words 'shut up' and they feel that yelling is worse than hitting because it embarrasses the students, which is too cruel or something in this culture. That and they feel that saying I'm disappointed in the students in basically telling them they are worthless or something, when nothing could be farther from the truth. I just want them to try their best on a simple Middle School Mad Lib, which was what I was trying to do when they got bored and went into monkey mode. Yeah, these are middle schoolers. And Girls no less, but I think that it's girls adds to the anti-yelling 'shut up' sentiment. I've already made my case and expressed that I'm not sorry for the content of what I said, though I told them that I regret raising my voice and that I was merely getting their attention in a way I was certain would work. They seemed disinterested and considering it was the same teachers giving my flak about this who was translating to the VP, I figure it came out at least a little biased.

I've seen my crew of once fantastic CTs get shovel loads more work and duties this past school year and their disposition towards me has gone for friendly to neutral to outright hostile. Two still seems like pals, but the youngest basically wants my position (being a first year teacher, she is actually paid less), my handler is sick of having to deal with anything regarding me and is aggressively passive aggressive lately and the oldest hasn't done anything thing since the 60's and can't rub two English words together. This class was with the youngest, who has been occasionally hijacking lessons from me. Today she just laughed and kept saying 'cute girls' to the students as they went from 0 to tornado in about 2 seconds. When she finally refused to translate for me, then told me to go, I was so dumbfounded I just did, though I realize as I write this that might be part of it. She can now say I abandoned the class, walked out. Crap. Maybe if I'm fired it's a blessing. This kind of back biting office politics is not my style. I'll really miss most my students and wanted to see them do well, but I guess I might not get to.

What I get for actually caring and trying to teach instead of being a dancing bear. Still no word, I'll post again when I know what is up, but that might be tomorrow or after the weekend from what I understand.

[busanliving]

Just wondering if saying "shut up" put you at a bad start, I have had to explain to a lot of my students and co-teachers that's perfectly acceptable in the classroom as many of them seem to class it in the same league as swearing.

[Aelric]

[thegadfly]

I have encountered a lot of Koreans that think "shut up" is terribly strong profanity -- with adults, when I ask if they know the s-word, they say it is "shut up."

That may have been enough to sour the whole tirade -- if you started off yelling at a class with "You little maggots better listen," I don't think what you say next would matter...and for some strange reason, a lot of Koreans I have met take "shut up" worse than that even....

Busanliving,

Even in the US, telling your students to "shut up" can get you fired, at least during your probationary period (yes, I got in trouble for doing it, yes, I learned my lesson about it, and no, I don't use that phrase any more). It is NOT "perfectly acceptable in the classroom." If your boss or doctor told you to shut up, you would be offended. There are pefectly acceptable alternatives, but shut-up is not perfectly acceptable in many social situations.