Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Who's Your Daddy?]

Okay,

I am puzzled by some F holders I know working full time jobs (hogwons, public school, university).

I figure working at a uni you make about 2.0 mil per month after tax (2.0 - tax + housing). Well at 20 hours per week that's 25,000 per hour, or 100,000/day (on a 5 day week).

So my question is why do F holders want to work there? With a company class for 70,000 in the morning, and then one more regular private (say 40,000), you've matched the salary?

I understand E holders need an employer, and sometimes housing, but why do F holders take full time jobs?

What am I missing?

[Goon-Yang]

2 mil for 20 hours...lol. That's what you're missing.

Try 1.5 times that for 1/2 those hours.

I have an F and I have a full time job. You could be out working hour by hour teaching privates (you say 40k...you're showing your n00bness again) but it's a pain in the ass to maintain those classes. Mom's cancel. Kids get sick. You have to drive to and from those places...it's a pain.

[Fox]

Ignoring the fact that you're substantially low-balling the salary of a university worker and probably over-estimating average hours worked as well, the second person you're describing loses the following:

1) Free housing (this isn't cancelled out by taxes; the person free lancing is still legally required to pay taxes as well).
2) Yearly air tickets.
3) Yearly severance bonus.
4) Pension matching.
5) Insurance premium contribution.
6) Paid holidays.
7) Job security.

A person free lancing can no doubt earn quite a decent salary, but they'd have to work harder than you're describing just to actually break even, and business could dry up at any time. I think it's totally understandable why some people don't find that lifestyle attractive.

[Who's Your Daddy?]

There are two uni's in my town:

1. 2.1 Mil + 3K housing for 14 hours teaching, and 1 office per week. No plane ticket money.

But they aren't hiring.

2. 2.0 + 3K housing for 20 hours teaching and "10 office hours per week" (goodness knows what that's about). 500K to fly you in (but I'm here).

Pension matching is 4.5% of your salary. Doesn't seem to much to worry about.

The relevant things I guess are paid vacation (7 or 8 weeks for these places), and the month bonus.

The other guy who said 40,000 for a private is a noob is sort of making my point. That's the minimum you could expect per hour outside of a contract.

For the university I expect a lot of hours of prep, and marking, for those classroom hours, and you have to deal with management?

And really it seems easy to get private work.

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Maybe it's a Seoul/Big City vs. smaller city difference. Not many good universities to choose from here, and not much competition for private work.

Also I tutor a doctor, and some mothers, and a few kids. It's really low stress, no hassle stuff. Show up, teach, and they're so happy with snacks and stuff.

[pkang0202]

[PatrickGHBusan]

OP,

You underestimated the income of university instructors as well as the money they can earn legally tutoring.

You also did not include in your financial analysis that was worthy of Mad Magazine (sorry..it was just a funny analysis you made) elements like:

Insurance
Pension
Regular Income
Housing or Housing Allowance
Experience for your resume

Private classes like you describe are notoriously unreliable. They are there for a few months then the well dries up.

With a University position you get a steady income with benefits for an average of 12-15 hours per week with (for a good position) an average of 10 weeks of vacation (paid) where you can double up on your pay if you work camps.

You also (if you have a working brain) get huge networking possibilities.

Now say a decent university position pays around 3 million a month for 12 hours of teaching + 2 hours of office. Tag on 10 to 12 weeks of paid vacation. Add up health care, pension (when its available) and a housing allowance.

Then consider that this steady income makes private tutoring (which is legal for F-visa holders) a simple income booster. On a 15 hour week, you sure have room for a fair number of private lessons or even for a second part-time job if you wish.

My example works well here. I worked for a University, was earning far more than that 2.0 figure. With the extra time a 12 hour week allowed, I started a consulting agency that flourished.

[Captain Corea]

I'll weigh in on the other side:

I've got an F visa and feel very much the same as the OP. I've had freedom in my work that I wouldn't normally have in a 'salary' job, I've been able to choose my own schedule as I see fit, I've never worried about my income, and I've always had work lined up. And I've had my F visa for about 6 years now.

For me, it's been pretty near perfect. I honestly am not sure how I'd go back to working for someone again.

That being said, I can easily see that it is not for everyone, and I don't usually suggest it to people.

[PatrickGHBusan]

You provide a good example Captain.

It can indeed be done either way. I suppose the point being made by some here was that working stictly on your own like you is not for everyone and is not always more financially rewarding.

At the end of the day, to each his own.

[KoreanAmbition]

OP,

Actually I agree with your logic, but your numbers are off. Let's just say if I offered you my job... you'd take it.

[Who's Your Daddy?]

Okay,

I've been gone for the day. It seems theirs a gulf between established university jobs that you guys have held for years and jobs that are appearing on the market now.

If I saw university jobs available that are talked about by you guys (12 hours/ 3.0 Mil or 2.5 Mil/ 10 weeks vacation) I'd agree. But I don't see those university jobs. I see what I posted above in my town (I have copies of their contracts). My assumption is you'll teach the max contracted.

It seems that uni jobs in Korea are declining, but people still take them based on their old prestige.


-------
Okay this was what was noted:

Medical Insurance. You can be put as a dependent on your working wife's medical.

Pension. Their matching contribution is 4.5% of your salary, so about 100K. Yeah, that's relevant.

Regular Income. I've had privates going for years. Since I arrived in 2003, I've basically lived off my private income. I already make more than my cost of living. Sure some drop, but they don't all drop together. I think you guys are worrying too much about this.

Housing or Housing Allowance. I own my house, so the housing allowance is 300K in my city. Yes that's relevant.

Experience for your resume. Yes that's relevant if you want to move into another job, especially if you want to go back home. But I'm not sure there are jobs I want here in Korea, and I'm never going home. But I can see that's relevant.

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So I'll take the the best uni job in my city. It isn't hiring, and has many applications.

2.1 Mil + 3K housing + 1K for pension, for 14 hours teaching, and 1 office per week. No plane ticket money.

From above 2.5 less say 1K in tax, 2.4 net/60 hours per month = 40,000

Yeah, seems good. You got me there.

2nd place:

2.0 + 3K housing + 1K pension, for 20 hours teaching and "10 office hours per week"

Say 2.4 less 1K tax= 2.3 net/120 hours per month = 20,000

Nuts. Who'd do that?

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So these are the benefits of working alone, I figure:

1) Set your own schedule. Free time during the day, or 4 days a week, more your choice.
2) Choose who you teach. I tutor 1 or 2 students at a time; no stress in deal with a large class.
3) Choose teaching material.
4) Not have to deal with management.
5) Not have to teach "English Camp" of kids.
6) Not having to prep exams, or grade exams.
7) Not having to deal with student complaints.

---------------

I guess I'm just tired of dealing with managers who have some stupid idea I must do because I signed a contract. I trust myself to make money more than I trust management at these "universities."

[anynag]

[KoreanAmbition]

If you plan to live in the same city the rest of your life, then your ideas seem fine.

However, what if you move? Then you have to rebuild you list of privates. That means you won't initially have income to live off.


The fact is that your F-visa will never change...it will always give you the same options.

But your job can change, and possibly in a positive way. You might have just a regular university job in your city, which as you pointed out don't have spectacular conditions. But in the future, if you ever move, you can probably get into one of those much better jobs.

Most likely, the way you are describing your mindset now, you will never be able to move. So if you are okay living out your existence there, then I agree with your comments. But if you ever decide to relocate, you might be in for a world of hurt, at least for a while as your getting re-situated.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Who's Your Daddy?,

Good comparison and really it all boils down to what each person is more confortable with.

If you plan to stay in the same city over a long period (years) then your approach is indeed fine. If however you want to move to another city in Korea and aim for better jobs then the smarter play is too accumulate experience that can pad your resume.

As a side note, the best job advertised by the universities in your area is not necessarily the best job they have. Many of the better positions are not advertised widely.

[pkang0202]

[wooden nickels]