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bish
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: "Please understand our situation" |
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Ever noticed how often this phrase is used here when trying to justify someone's bad behaviour without apologizing?
Yesterday morning I arrived at my High School at 7:50 am to start an early morning class I had agreed to do. When I got to the room, there was a student teacher in there talking to the students and doing paperwork. I knocked, walked in, smiled, and she walked to the back of the class. I wasn't sure why she was there and she seemed unsure of what was going on so I walked to the back of the class to ask her what she wanted to do and to explain to her (in Korean) that I was supposed to be doing a short lesson.
As I approached her, she started walking into the corner of the room (like a little Hamster), shaking her head, and ushering me away with her hands. It was an unbelievably rude, childish and pathetic way of saying "I can't speak English", but I had intended to speak Korean with her!! The students started laughing at/with her bad example and I decided to let her get on with what she was trying to do and go ask my Head of Department why the student teacher was there and if she had something important to do. I also wanted someone to tell her to think about her social skills.
2 minutes later, the student teacher came to my office, with a translator, in tears, explaining that she "couldn't speak English". I explained that I could have spoken Korean and poor English was not what offended me, it was the childish body language, lack of manners and bad example she had set to the students. She said that she had felt "uncomfortable", and I explained that I felt it was no excuse for an adult to behave that way. I explained that if I behaved that way every time I felt "uncomfortable" I would have been fired a long time ago.
Although I was frank with her, I was talking calmly and saying that I hoped she would enjoy the rest of her day. As we talked, some other teachers overheard the conversation. I explained what had happened and although they seemed to understand my point they still responded with the predictable "please understand the situation". What a cop out!
I think the issue here was not my "understanding", it was her lack of social skills and bad manners. Her childishness. Her bad example to the students.
The phrase "please understand" is notoriously common in this country, but in 3 years of living here it is one that I find very hard to get used to...
Last edited by bish on Sat May 29, 2010 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hardy Boy
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Location: I live in a shoe. Made in B.C., Northern Vancouver Island
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand your condescending "I'm right-she's wrong" attitude.
She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? Don't you know anything about their culture of saving face? Who are you to try and control their behaviour? You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons.
| Quote: |
| I think the issue here was not my "understanding", it was her lack of social skills and bad manners. |
Don't you see the lack of social skills and manners you displayed from their point of view? "Please understand" is about the nicest thing they could say about your behavior! Mark it: behind your back they are saying nastier things about the uncouth waygook ass. teacher. |
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bish
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardy Boy wrote: |
I don't understand your condescending "I'm right-she's wrong" attitude.
She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? Don't you know anything about their culture of saving face? Who are you to try and control their behaviour? You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons.
| Quote: |
| I think the issue here was not my "understanding", it was her lack of social skills and bad manners. |
Don't you see the lack of social skills and manners you displayed from their point of view? "Please understand" is about the nicest thing they could say about your behavior! Mark it: behind your back they are saying nastier things about the uncouth waygook ass. teacher. |
I'm sorry but fear of what? Simple communication?
I am aware of the face saving culture, of course and that is why I have never had any trouble until yesterday. I do think the "it was a misunderstanding" culture is difficult sometime but I have generally accepted it so I can get on with my job.
Yesterday, I just found it difficult to understand why it could be acceptable for an adult/teacher to back off into a corner in front of students. I was very polite and friendly towards her and I was going to speak in Korean to her. There was no need to back into a corner and waive me away.
You say:
You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons.
Fair enough, perhaps in the eyes of the school I should have no opinion on this kind of thing. As I said, this is the first time in 18 months that this has happened. Perhaps I was wrong to point out to her that I interpreted her behaviour as being rude.
I did say to them "that I understood the situation," but I am just asking people on here if they have found this aspect of Korean culture difficult.
Last edited by bish on Fri May 28, 2010 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardy Boy wrote: |
I don't understand your condescending "I'm right-she's wrong" attitude.
She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? Don't you know anything about their culture of saving face? Who are you to try and control their behaviour? You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons. |
They're co-workers- it's not his/her job to help them speak English; just the students. Also, as a student teacher, she's an assistant too. There are more polite ways to react than run away like a scared puppy. |
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ChilgokBlackHole
Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardy Boy wrote: |
| She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? |
No. He wanted her to act like a professional. That is *not* too much to ask, and he did the right thing. |
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Dragoon
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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You ever notice this whole "backing away/cover your mouth/stall tactics" only happens when you approach 아가씨's (young korean women). I never have this problem with ajummas or older Korean women. When I walk into Lotteria or some such place and the girl behind the counter is low to mid 20's....I already know there's going to be trouble.
My Korean is pretty damn spiffy when it comes to simple business transactions such as these as I've been doing them for years here...yet I still have to put up with their bullcrap. When I see an ajumma behind the counter...I feel a sigh of relief because I know we are going to get through this with no trouble (in 100% Korean) and we might have a small conversation to boot.
Point is...young Korean girls (besides something to look at) are mostly useless in any kind of business/work environment..they have some kind of weird anxiety issues with waygooks. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardy Boy wrote: |
I don't understand your condescending "I'm right-she's wrong" attitude.
She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? Don't you know anything about their culture of saving face? Who are you to try and control their behaviour? You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons.
| Quote: |
| I think the issue here was not my "understanding", it was her lack of social skills and bad manners. |
Don't you see the lack of social skills and manners you displayed from their point of view? "Please understand" is about the nicest thing they could say about your behavior! Mark it: behind your back they are saying nastier things about the uncouth waygook ass. teacher. |
Get real Hardy Boy.
It's that same kind of thinking that makes them think that ""never growing up" and "never taking responsibility" and "never being accountable", is acceptable.
The co-teacher is an adult. You seem to accept adults acting like 10-year-olds. Shouldn't there be a time where that's not acceptable? Saving face? Classic scapegoat comment thrown out as the first response. Yet another way to go through life never being accountable for anything you do. If someone always gets to say they act based on saving face, then they never have to worry about their initial actions. I just don't think that's fair.
Bish, unfortunately, you're probably not helping yourself within your job environment by directly pointing all that stuff out....but at the same time, you're feelings are probably right.
So you have 3 choices in the future:
1) Put yourself in a bad position by making it public that you are discontent with her actions. That will make you feel good, until the next time it happens.
2) You can do as Hardy Boy seems to stress, and just accept that kind of behaviour.
3) You can spend a bit of your own personal time and provide your co-teacher with some helpful expressions that you have typed out for her that will help avoid future problems. If you are good with Korean, then you can type the Korean next to each quote so she understands, and you might even want to include an explanation of context. That will show her you want to help her, which might make her really want to learn the quotes well. She obviously doesn't want to be embarrassed, so if you give her the chance to avoid that, I would assume she'll take it. At the same time, don't burden her with a huge list of quotes...just a few that you feel will satisfy you and will work in most situations.
Such as:
"Would it be okay if we talk out in the hallway?"
"Would it be okay if you wait 5 minutes for me to finish this exercise?"
"I'm sorry, there must be some confusion, can you just let me give them an exercise and then we can talk about it."
Providing her with the above quotes will allow her to look good in front of the students by using English accurately in a functional context, and will also provide you with what should be an acceptable comment. Then you can go figure out what the problem is.
If it happens again and she clearly refused to learn them, then IN PRIVATE, deal with her in a way that lets you voice your discontent. But first, you should make sure that you went that extra mile to spoon-feed her with the right quotes. That makes it really easy for her, then she has no excuses.
Last edited by KoreanAmbition on Sat May 29, 2010 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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I'm confused here. Was she an english student-teacher?
Anyways, if it were me I would have walked back out and go to the person who arranged the class with you for clarification as to what was going on. And I'd leave it at that. |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dragoon wrote: |
Point is...young Korean girls (besides something to look at) are mostly useless in any kind of business/work environment..they have some kind of weird anxiety issues with waygooks. |
Let's not generalize too much please. Not all young Korean women are useless. In fact, in my experience, they've been quite pleasant, though at times a bit shy. With a little coaxing, they come out of their shells just fine.
As for the Op, the way you describe things, I don't see anything wrong with your behaviour. My difficulty is in believing things went down as you describe. I've never run across any Korean who has shown this kind of cowardice or burst into tears so readily. |
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air76
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbybigfoot wrote: |
| My difficulty is in believing things went down as you describe. I've never run across any Korean who has shown this kind of cowardice or burst into tears so readily. |
You must be living in a different Korea than the rest of us then....although it is the Korean police who top even the young Korean girls in terms of cowardice.
That being said....I do think that the OP overreacted. Dealing with Korean co-workers is often a headache, but I don't think that she did anything so bizarre as to get "tattled-on"....I am used to the Koreans being scared of me, it's just part of the deal here. |
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Countrygirl
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Location: in the classroom
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it scary that how the student teacher reacted almost seems normal? |
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bish
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="KoreanAmbition"]
| Hardy Boy wrote: |
I don't understand your condescending "I'm right-she's wrong" attitude.
She responded naturally out of fear and you wanted to make an example of her? You wanted to make her apologize and say "Sorry"? Don't you know anything about their culture of saving face? Who are you to try and control their behaviour? You're an assistant by contract, there to help them speak English not make them behave the way you want outside of formal lessons.
| Quote: |
| I think the issue here was not my "understanding", it was her lack of social skills and bad manners. |
Don't you see the lack of social skills and manners you displayed from their point of view? "Please understand" is about the nicest thing they could say about your behavior! Mark it: behind your back they are saying nastier things about the uncouth waygook ass. teacher. |
Get real Hardy Boy.
It's an attitude like yours that makes them think that ""never growing up" and "never taking responsibility" and "never being accountable", is acceptable.
The co-teacher is an adult. You seem to accept adults acting like 10-year-olds. Saving face? Classic scapegoat comment thrown out as the first response. Yet another way to go through life never being accountable for anything you do.
Bish, unfortunately, you're probably not helping yourself within your job environment by directly pointing all that stuff out....but at the same time, you're feelings are probably right.
quote]
I like my school, but will be leaving in July so it doesn't woory me a great deal. I had lunch with my Head of Dept today and he was fine with me. I don't see any problems with the teachers who are close to me.
One of the other posters said he didn't believe a Korean girl could cry so easily. Is he having a laugh? Although this is the first time it has happened to me, this kind of thing is something I can easily imagine happening elsewhere. |
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Hardy Boy
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Location: I live in a shoe. Made in B.C., Northern Vancouver Island
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| bish wrote: |
| One of the other posters said he didn't believe a Korean girl could cry so easily. Is he having a laugh? Although this is the first time it has happened to me, this kind of thing is something I can easily imagine happening elsewhere. |
Ignore him. An apologist denial.
Such behaviour by some Korean girls happens. And cowering and looking uncomfortable at the approach of a big, tall waygookin is common enough.
But, really, should you be criticizing her for doing it? Shake your head and speak to her in Korean, put her at ease. No need to single her out for doing what was for her a natural reaction. Drop the judgements and simply SHOW her actions as foolish by acting contrary to her expectations.
What you actually did just jacked her tensions up, not to mention those of her friends and others she tells, the incident becoming blown waaaay out of proportion. |
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shcforward
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Clearly the OP understands about "losing face" - he lost plenty of it when the student-teacher ran away from him like he was a monster - in front of a whole class of students.
I think that any of us imagining ourselves in such a situation could understand having an inclination towards being upset.
The mature thing to do is to calmly explain to the appropriate person that the situation was unprofessional and embarrassing, and it should be an important learning experience for the student-teacher.
In regards to the actual question asked by the OP, I've heard that statement four dozen times. It can be very frustrating. If someone is telling you to try to understand Person A when Person A is clearly doing something wrong, there is no incentive whatsoever to even begin trying to "understand" that person.
I had a similar situation - I work for a government institute. The (former) director tried to implement a new policy that was both against the employee contracts and Korean labor law. As the Korean teachers explained it, they knew full well that the director was wrong, what he was trying to do was technically illegal, and that his new policy was going to be overturned by his superiors in a matter of hours. But still, they said "try to understand him."
It was all that they could say. There was no other way to deal with the situation. They were just trying to decrease confrontation. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| bish wrote: |
It's an attitude like yours that makes them think that ""never growing up" and "never taking responsibility" and "never being accountable", is acceptable.
The co-teacher is an adult. You seem to accept adults acting like 10-year-olds. |
I'm not sure what you're trying to do by making an example of a Korean woman. She is just exemplifying what a young Korean woman is supposed to be. She is an adult. But she is an adult Korean woman. Social expectations for young Korean women are that they are passive, not too forthright, deferential, and prone to dissimulation--among a myriad of others. If you think Korean women are nervous or easily frightened, you should go to Japan. Japanese women make the twitching whiskers of a mouse look positively relaxed. Keep in mind that I'm talking about nubile Korean and Japanese women--especially women who feel it their duty to follow the strictures of their culture. The behavioral landscape changes dramatically once they're married and have a kid or two. It's no wonder middle aged Korean women are perceived as rude and aggressive. They're no longer in bondage.
It is strange what adolescence and the demands of a culture can do to a child. Korean female children can be tough, demanding, confident, and responsible. But adolescence comes along and Korean society starts applying the pressure: don't behave this way, don't show that emotion. Tis a pity, but Korean women have not gone through their own version of a feminist movement--for good and for bad. Don't apply egalitarian and meritocratic principles in this case. Common sense in this case just might be a cultural marker, too. |
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