Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ktkates87]

So i'm in the process of applying and interviewing for jobs for september. The ball n chain and I have decided we're going to go private rather than public.

When we are being given email addresses to contact current teachers at the school, (besides the obvious questions) what are some things you had wished you had asked that you didnt think of at the time?

I am a bit freaked out by all the shady practices of hagwons and want to make sure i'm doing all my research...also maybe a bit curious to hear of some things I would never think to ask!

[thegadfly]

Well, just remember that "all the shady practices of hagwons" make up a very small percentage of actual hagwon experiences...folks with bad experiences share those experiences loudly -- folks with good experiences generally keep them to themselves...even the Wonderland chain, which has a very negative reputation, employs thousands and thousands of teachers -- of which, there are probably hundreds and hundreds of bad experiences, but still, that is like 90% basically happy....

The main question I would ask is why the person you are replacing is leaving...other than that, the "obvious" ones about my duties and whether any support/training were available were all I had....

[kinerry]

[thegadfly]

Kinerry,

I worked at Wonderland for a year -- several of the folks at that same Wonderland re-upped for several years running. None of the folks that left during my stint did so because of "horror stories" -- they simply found better jobs (which is not hard to do). I left after finishing my contract because I had some other things going on, and though I wouldn't work there again (as I said, finding a better gig is VERY easy), I had a basically positive experience. I had some problems, but every job has some problems, and my time at Wonderland was mostly positive.

Of course, you do not HEAR about the positive experiences, which was my point -- you HEAR about the horror stories, because those are the more interesting stories.

Have YOU worked at a Wonderland, Kinerry? Like I said, I did my full, one-year stint...so clearly, I DO know something about them...perhaps even more than you?

That said, I would NOT recommend Wonderland to anyone...I am just saying it is not as BAD as folks make out sometimes...but "not bad" does not mean "good."

[moosehead]

[kprrok]

[thegadfly]

Moosehead,

Really? You don't want to just slam KT for using the term, you want to slam anyone that responds with any advice? How broad a brush are you using there? Not defending the term, mind you, but I don't think it is fair of you to condemn folks for politely ignoring it.

[WTP Trust]

I can't speak for Wonderland, but of all the hogwans (including afterschool elementary hogwans) I have never been ripped off or given crappy housing. I've had to deal with office politics, like anywhere, and the typical hogwan situation of being such a good teacher that your reward is more classes--though you will get overtime.

Basic rule: go over the contract with a fine tooth comb. Make sure your vacation days do not include weekends/holidays and can be taken in a full week block. Also make sure the number of teaching hours are specifically stated in the contract.
I made the mistake of overlooking both of those things once, and while it didn't wind up a disaster, it left me feeling less than positive.

[moosehead]

[ktkates87]

Yeah,

I actually am female. My partner and I sometimes jokingly call eachother that-- not in a bad way. I suppose I used such an awful term to poke a bit of fun at how the experience of finding couples positions has been when we're wanting to come with eachother to a foreign country where we are a package deal like a "ball n chain."

Excuse me for using such a term....I didnt mean to offend anyone....

[moosehead]

apology accepted; there's just way too much sexism around here to let such remarks go unnoticed.

fyi, I've known several couples who didn't have much difficulty finding positions, especially at public schools. I'm sure the 2 of you will do fine; just make sure they don't screw you on the housing - you should get a decent place - not just a one-room closet.

[thegadfly]

Moosehead,

Whoops -- nothing I say could be more poignant than the truth that came out before I responded.

You have a right to be offended by whatever you choose, I suppose, but my point remains that if you make sweeping generalizations, you are not that much different than those about whom you protest -- same flawed methods, different views....

[KoreanAmbition]

Moosehead,

The OP was female.

You claim that a female wouldn't like it, yet it was a female who said it. We're not in North Korea, you can stand "at ease" sometimes ya know.

Did someone pee in your cereal this morning? It was a joke... boy, what kind of humour do you use in your classes?

Are you one of those teachers that says things like, "Yikes", "Yowsers", or "Holy Moly Batman".

Or maybe you talk more like Ned Flanders? Okely Dokely.

[PatrickGHBusan]

OP while your concerns are natural, you have received some great advice in this thread.

First, this board is NOT representative of the "Hakwon or EFL-ESL Experience" in Korea. This board is populated in large part by people who need to vent, hence the bad side of things get massively over represented. This board also has its share of malcontents and crap disturbers who get their kicks from typing up fabricated horror stories or with offering their "advice" on working at places they know nothing about. Finally, some people here CONFUSE their PERSONAL experiences with the overal state of affairs in Korea and then TRANSLATE their experiences into a general conclusion about Koreans and Korea and ESL....Many of these people have never held a full time teaching job before and confuse difficulties with a challenging new job with being abused or cheated. This cheapens the true stories where people are actually in dire straits.

Second, bad stories get told because people with bad experiences are louder than those that are happy. The OVERWHELMING majority of Teachers I have met (I was in Korea for 11 years so do the math) in person had good to great experiences in Korea. This really rams home how tilted this board can be. Bad stories here get the shark frenzy effect: one drop in the water and out come the usual suspects to weigh in and bash away. The Wonderland example is a case in point. Bad stories are bought and swallowed wholesale and people who ask questions about them are flamed. All in good anonymous online fun. The good stories are of course written off as false written by Koreans or Recruiters or by sell out apologists (who did they sell out you may wonder).

Now, this board DOES HAVE ITS USES. There are dedicated posters that have been in Korea for a long time who do probvide factual and reliable information, Tom is the stallwarth of these posters in my humble opinion.

Bacially, whatever you read here when it comes to job and living in Korea, take with a grain of salt.

Do what you will of course but personally, I would not rely on this board too much. You can get decent information but no more.

If you have more direct questions, feel free to pm me. Like I said, I was in Korea or 11 years and may have some information to offer that you could find useful.

As for a Hakwon job...here are the basic steps any applicant should take:

1- Figure out your worth (degrees + experience compared to the average pay being offered around) and where you wish to work (city vs small town, kids vs adults).

2- Get all your papers ready before you apply.

3- When you get offers, review the contract a few times, if you have questions check out the contract review thread here as compared to other threads it is chock full of good information. You will quickly see which users want to actually help with contracts and which are in the aforementioned crap disturber group.

4- Ask questions to some Foreign Teachers on staff if possible. Take the answers you get with a grain of salt as well....its not because you are talking to another westerner that all he or she says is true or valid....

5- Read up on Korea and on the area where you potential employer is located (do this now or before applying if you know where you want to end up).

6- Take whatever story you read about the Hakwon with a grain of salt. Note that all blacklists that are currently online post stories about schools that are typically unverified, meaning anyone with a bad story submits it and some websites publish them as is. While some content is valid, a lot of it is basically floating sewer filth being stirred around.

Now here is the big one:

7- ACCEPT that you cannot get everything cleared up into some 100% irconclad certitude. You WILL have to accept some portion of risk and unknown as you are taking a job overseas. Unknown does not mean bad, it does mean be ready to adapt however.


Now, best of luck.

[Ramen]

The #1 question that I can think of is: Will I get paid?