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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: Is This an Unreasonable Political Attack? |
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Article here.
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Taking a page out of the playbook normally reserved for Glenn Beck, Jerry Brown, the Democratic nominee for California Governor (and a former governor himself), recently compared his opponent, former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, to a Nazi.
And not just any Nazi -- chief Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels.
The comments came during a conversation between San Francisco KCBS radio reporter Doug Sovern and Brown after the two bumped into each other on a bike trail in Oakland.
Here is the report from Sovern's blog.
Brown boasted about his legendary frugality. "I've only spent $200,000 so far. I have 20 million in the bank. I'm saving up for her." It's true -- his stay-on-the-sidelines, bare-bones primary run cost him almost nothing, at least in California political terms. But he also fretted about the impact of all those eBay dollars in Whitman's very deep pockets. "You know, by the time she's done with me, two months from now, I'll be a child-molesting..." He let the line trail off. "She'll have people believing whatever she wants about me.
"It's like Goebbels," referring to Hitler's notorious minister of propaganda. "Goebbels invented this kind of propaganda. He took control of the whole world. She wants to be president. That's her ambition, the first woman president. That's what this is all about."
The conversation continued: "She looks like an athlete. You think she's an athlete?" Brown asked. "[S]he could probably outrun me."
Meg Whitman's campaign later reacted to the Goebbels statement:
"Jerry Brown's statements comparing our campaign to a propagator of the Holocaust is deeply offensive and entirely unacceptable," said Jillian Hasner, Whitman's campaign manager.
Brown's campaign spokesman, Sterling Clifford, addressed the reported comments on Thursday:
"I wouldn't vouch for the accuracy of it, but I also don't want to dispute the accuracy of it," he told The Associated Press. "It was jogging talk taken out of context." |
Is this really particularly unreasonable? When I look at that quote, I don't see him calling her a Nazi per se. Rather, I see him accusing her of engaging in propaganda via comparison to a particularly famous propagandist who was incidentally a Nazi. It was still a stupid thing to say (because it allows her campaign to distract from his point via whining about Nazi-talk), but I don't think the point he was making had anything to do with the Nazis themselves or the Holocaust. Hell, their response to his casual comment is an example of propaganda, essentially putting words in his mouth. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| The song "California �ber Alles" by the Dead Kennedys is sung from the perspective of Jerry Brown during his tenure as Governor. The song has Brown painting a picture of a hippie-fascist state, satirizing what they considered his mandating of liberal ideas in a fascist manner. Lyricist Jello Biafra later said in an interview with Nardwuar that he now feels different about Brown, as it turned out he wasn't as bad as he thought he would be. |
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In 2008, the First Amendment Coalition requested access to Brown's gubernatorial records. After leaving the governorship, Brown helped seal his records and those of future governors for a 50-year secrecy period. He has been urged to release his records before the election and to help shorten or eliminate the secrecy period. |
Former Governor Moonbeam is too old, out of date, wacky, and a fascist-socialist ... the Dems have really lost it. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Most political attacks are unreasonable, nothing new here. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is This an Unreasonable Political Attack? |
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| Fox wrote: |
Article here.
| Quote: |
Taking a page out of the playbook normally reserved for Glenn Beck, Jerry Brown, the Democratic nominee for California Governor (and a former governor himself), recently compared his opponent, former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, to a Nazi.
"It's like Goebbels," referring to Hitler's notorious minister of propaganda. "Goebbels invented this kind of propaganda. He took control of the whole world. She wants to be president. That's her ambition, the first woman president. That's what this is all about."
Meg Whitman's campaign later reacted to the Goebbels statement:
"Jerry Brown's statements comparing our campaign to a propagator of the Holocaust is deeply offensive and entirely unacceptable," said Jillian Hasner, Whitman's campaign manager.
Brown's campaign spokesman, Sterling Clifford, addressed the reported comments on Thursday:
"I wouldn't vouch for the accuracy of it, but I also don't want to dispute the accuracy of it," he told The Associated Press. "It was jogging talk taken out of context." |
Is this really particularly unreasonable? When I look at that quote, I don't see him calling her a Nazi per se. Rather, I see him accusing her of engaging in propaganda via comparison to a particularly famous propagandist who was incidentally a Nazi. It was still a stupid thing to say (because it allows her campaign to distract from his point via whining about Nazi-talk), but I don't think the point he was making had anything to do with the Nazis themselves or the Holocaust. Hell, their response to his casual comment is an example of propaganda, essentially putting words in his mouth. |
It is unreasonable. Jerry Brown crossed the line, and his campaign knows it. Comparing any law-abiding politician to the Nazis, especially on the state level, is shameful and lazy. Its certainly worse than rambling musings critical of Civil Rights legislation. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Is This an Unreasonable Political Attack? |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| It is unreasonable. Jerry Brown crossed the line, and his campaign knows it. Comparing any law-abiding politician to the Nazis, especially on the state level, is shameful and lazy. Its certainly worse than rambling musings critical of Civil Rights legislation. |
But he wasn't comparing her to the Nazis collectively, nor comparing her policy to the overall policy of the Nazis. Rather, he was just saying she's a propagandist via comparison to a very famous propagandist. |
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ropebreezy
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Besides the fact that Jerry was pretty much talking out of his ass (or trail talk, or whatever you want to call it), I think it was a bit intentional of him to use Goebbels as a comparison. Whenever I encounter someone trying to make their point using Nazis as a comparative, they are trying to make their point in the most dramatic yet accessible way possible. Jerry was intentionally being dramatic here.
But sure, to be fair to technicality, the reference was only made to Goebbels the propagandist, not Goebbels the Nazi. I think the intent was pretty clear though. And honestly, I wish Godwin's law was employed within the political arena, not just the Internet. If a politician uses Nazi-comparative rhetoric in an effort to discredit their opponent, they should be forced to drop out of the race (only slightly kidding). |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Is This an Unreasonable Political Attack? |
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| Fox wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| It is unreasonable. Jerry Brown crossed the line, and his campaign knows it. Comparing any law-abiding politician to the Nazis, especially on the state level, is shameful and lazy. Its certainly worse than rambling musings critical of Civil Rights legislation. |
But he wasn't comparing her to the Nazis collectively, nor comparing her policy to the overall policy of the Nazis. Rather, he was just saying she's a propagandist via comparison to a very famous propagandist. |
I think in this day in age everyone realizes that comparing someone to a Nazi is at the very least trying to invoke the negative feelings most people have towards Nazis.
He might not have been calling her a Nazi outright, but there is only one reason people use well-known Nazi names. |
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