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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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Looks like Stalinism will stay in the north and free enterprise will continue to flourish in warrior country.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/10/116_75225.html
Show me one country where the government throttling business has actually turned out well. (taking monopoly laws as a given) What a lot of these "armchair" economists with sociology degrees on this forum don't seem to realize is that a corporation is simply a LOT of people working as a team. The resulting entity being more efficient than if these people worked alone. Not to mention corporations do most of the R&D in the world. I'm pretty sure computerized stock optimization and laser barcode reading didn't originate in a corner store.
Also, I don't owe these people a living. In fact, the inefficiency in having many small, obsolete stores hurts the economy. So, in effect, in the long run, to help these people, business throttling laws should be binned at the first utterance. |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| FDNY wrote: |
Looks like Stalinism will stay in the north and free enterprise will continue to flourish in warrior country.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/10/116_75225.html
Show me one country where the government throttling business has actually turned out well. (taking monopoly laws as a given) What a lot of these "armchair" economists with sociology degrees on this forum don't seem to realize is that a corporation is simply a LOT of people working as a team. The resulting entity being more efficient than if these people worked alone. Not to mention corporations do most of the R&D in the world. I'm pretty sure computerized stock optimization and laser barcode reading didn't originate in a corner store.
Also, I don't owe these people a living. In fact, the inefficiency in having many small, obsolete stores hurts the economy. So, in effect, in the long run, to help these people, business throttling laws should be binned at the first utterance. |
Hold on a moment. You think that government intervening in unrestricted free enterprise is "throttling business?" Isn't it exactly the opposite?
I thought the government exists to help the people, and ensure that our society stays balanced and fair. To give everyone opportunity to succeed. To make sure that wealth is distributed somewhat evenly. For the people, by the people. No? To allow business to flourish and not succumb to monopoly.
If we allow government to continually step aside and let the richest corporations dominate, we give too much power to too few people. And guess what? Then you have a society which operates not unlike the Despotic times of old: aka North Korea.
I believe a free society is a society with many options. Unfortunately, unrestricted free enterprise has an underlying flaw which will eventually lead to limited choices. I like choices.
So your argument is flawed. |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
| So your argument is flawed. Terribly, utterly flawed. |
Comrade, go back to doing colour-by-numbers pages in your sociology class and let others comment on this. Your argument is utterly ridiculous. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
| FDNY wrote: |
Looks like Stalinism will stay in the north and free enterprise will continue to flourish in warrior country.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/10/116_75225.html
Show me one country where the government throttling business has actually turned out well. (taking monopoly laws as a given) What a lot of these "armchair" economists with sociology degrees on this forum don't seem to realize is that a corporation is simply a LOT of people working as a team. The resulting entity being more efficient than if these people worked alone. Not to mention corporations do most of the R&D in the world. I'm pretty sure computerized stock optimization and laser barcode reading didn't originate in a corner store.
Also, I don't owe these people a living. In fact, the inefficiency in having many small, obsolete stores hurts the economy. So, in effect, in the long run, to help these people, business throttling laws should be binned at the first utterance. |
Hold on a moment. You think that government intervening in unrestricted free enterprise is "throttling business?" Isn't it exactly the opposite?
I thought the government exists to help the people, and ensure that our society stays balanced and fair. To give everyone opportunity to succeed. To make sure that wealth is distributed somewhat evenly. For the people, by the people. No? To allow business to flourish and not succumb to monopoly.
If we allow government to continually step aside and let the richest corporations dominate, we give too much power to too few people. And guess what? Then you have a society which operates not unlike the Despotic times of old: aka North Korea.
I believe a free society is a society with many options. Unfortunately, unrestricted free enterprise has an underlying flaw which will eventually lead to limited choices. I like choices.
So your argument is flawed. |
Go back to Massachussetts Pinko! I'll even buy you a blow up Ralph Nader doll to console you on the flight home. |
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bossface
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| attention mods - please move this to current events. this thread will only attract crackpots from both sides, and CE is the crackpots' rightful home. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
| I thought the government exists to help the people, and ensure that our society stays balanced and fair. To give everyone opportunity to succeed. To make sure that wealth is distributed somewhat evenly. . |
Nope, the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of men. That means standing up for every minority's rights to be free from force by others--including individual business owners. The government's role is to let us trade with each other peacefully to our mutual satisfaction and not intervene with those personal decisions. The only time it has the right to intervene is when force or fraud are involved. I do not like the government legislating who I should shop with and I don't think it has the mandate to do so, since I am trading peacefully with another individual or group. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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The size of firms should be limited to a % of market share so as to encourage competition. I'd like to see a cap of 20% or so in all non-vital (power etc) sectors. Even 20% is high.
Because of access to capital and economies of scale the natural trend in advanced economies is towards oligopoly and not perfect competition. Competition is good and should be encouraged by limiting market share. Yes this will create all kinds of weird incentives but oligopoly is corrupting everything. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| brento1138 wrote: |
| I thought the government exists to help the people, and ensure that our society stays balanced and fair. To give everyone opportunity to succeed. To make sure that wealth is distributed somewhat evenly. . |
Nope, the purpose of government is to protect the individual rights of men. That means standing up for every minority's rights to be free from force by others--including individual business owners. The government's role is to let us trade with each other peacefully to our mutual satisfaction and not intervene with those personal decisions. The only time it has the right to intervene is when force or fraud are involved. I do not like the government legislating who I should shop with and I don't think it has the mandate to do so, since I am trading peacefully with another individual or group. |
I think this post gets it right. Gov't regulation should focus on providing information and empowering the consumer, but interventions in the market do more than simply interfere with my ability to vote in the market, but leads to corporate/private equity capture and poor policy. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
Hold on a moment. You think that government intervening in unrestricted free enterprise is "throttling business?" Isn't it exactly the opposite?
I thought the government exists to help the people, and ensure that our society stays balanced and fair. To give everyone opportunity to succeed. To make sure that wealth is distributed somewhat evenly. For the people, by the people. No? To allow business to flourish and not succumb to monopoly.
If we allow government to continually step aside and let the richest corporations dominate, we give too much power to too few people. And guess what? Then you have a society which operates not unlike the Despotic times of old: aka North Korea.
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| Rand characterizes the actions of government employees in a way that is consistent with public choice theory, describing how the language of altruism is used to pass legislation that is nominally in the public interest (e.g., the "Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog Rule," and "The Equalization of Opportunity Bill") but which in reality serves special interests and government agencies at the expense of the public and the producers of value. In the novel, the "Anti-dog-eat-dog" rule, as passed by the National Alliance of Railroads, is an example of this type of dictatorship: "The Anti-dog-eat-dog Rule is the logical result of a mixed economy�one in the process of rejecting capitalism. When the government has the power to control and regulate private business, it's in a position to dispense economic favors." |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
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| When the government has the power to control and regulate private business, it's in a position to dispense economic favors." |
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That is what is meant by capture. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When the government has the power to control and regulate private business, it's in a position to dispense economic favors." |
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That is what is meant by capture. |
Mises also mentioned this thing called oligopoly. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: |
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The only phrase in the constitution that says anything at all about helping people is in the preamble: "...promote the general welfare"
If I could go back in time and do only one thing, it'd be to tell the founding fathers just how far those 4 words could be stretched.
The actual articles of the Constitution don't say a damn thing about propping people up or mucking about in their private matters (business or pleasure). |
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Fat_Elvis
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: In the ghetto
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| FDNY wrote: |
| Comrade, go back to doing colour-by-numbers pages in your sociology class and let others comment on this. Your argument is utterly ridiculous. |
Just the kind of intellectual critique one would expect from your average Tea Partier. Can you prove his argument is ridiculous?
All I see in the article the OP posted is two governments tring to protect their own economic interests - the British govt wants Tesco to trade freely, and the SK govt is trying to protect small corner stores. It just demonstrates to me how integrally linked government and capitalism are. So often big business and government work hand in glove - take as one example Lee Myung Bak, former chairman of Hyundai Construction. Capitalism wouldn't exist if governments weren't around to make laws to protect private property etc. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Super Hyper Mega Marts Get the Green Light - Commies Cry |
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| FDNY wrote: |
| Not to mention corporations do most of the R&D in the world. I'm pretty sure computerized stock optimization and laser barcode reading didn't originate in a corner store. |
In the most advance economies in the world state subsidies fund much R&D. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
The only phrase in the constitution that says anything at all about helping people is in the preamble: "...promote the general welfare"
If I could go back in time and do only one thing, it'd be to tell the founding fathers just how far those 4 words could be stretched.
The actual articles of the Constitution don't say a damn thing about propping people up or mucking about in their private matters (business or pleasure). |
Did the Constitution mention much about slavery? Some of the arguments I hear regarding the regulation of business sound pretty similar to the arguments of slave owners back in the day when people were supposedly 'free'. Some Americans increasingly sound more like hardcore Islamists who believe in the unalterable word of the Prophet or fundamentalist Chrisitians who contend that homosexuals are going straight to hell because an ancient text suggested so.
The Constitution provided a legal mechanism for the enactment of furher laws and amendments too, suggesting to me that it was never intended to be set in stone. It provided a basic framework much like the Magna Carta, but the vagries of life can almost never be totally encapsulated in one formal document. |
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